### Log session started at Thu Aug 17 00:00:00 2006 ### [00:00:14] do these leak tests do sometihng that valgrind can't do? [00:00:20] diffing maybe [00:00:20] run today? [00:00:24] shaver: I jsut asssumed tinderbox was using some tool. [00:00:27] shaver: ha! [00:00:29] valgrind doesn't like our custom allocators, either [00:00:39] ispiked: You assumed. Problem #1. :P [00:00:42] in my limited experience, at least [00:00:47] and graydon's less-limited [00:00:54] that's easily fixed [00:00:57] well [00:00:59] I believe Jesse has patches for that [00:00:59] that's being worked on... [00:01:00] graydon is working on it [00:01:01] I did at one point [00:01:07] jesse's patches were not complete [00:01:09] AIUI [00:01:18] orph [nobody@moz-5E06C3D1.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [00:01:37] and I don't think I'd ever seem patches that did the right thing with the JS GC pools until graydon's the other day [00:01:41] but by all means [00:01:47] I have machines at the ready [00:02:08] I'm sure the build team would be utterly relieved to discover that they could replace these things with something trivial [00:02:47] Mozilla1.8: 'Linux balsa Depend Fx-GTK1-GCC3.4' has changed state from Success to Burning. [00:02:51] mmm, balsa [00:02:53] graydon is working getting valgirnd grind arena hints (bug 348798) [00:02:56] shaver, reed : tool: http://lxr.mozilla.org/mozilla/source/tools/tinderbox/bloatdiff.pl [00:03:52] roc: i have a patch for https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=334514 but not for valgrind stuff [00:03:56] Do these leak tests do any of that? I'm not even sure which option we're talking about [00:04:15] leak tests give us class counts [00:04:23] shaver: yeah. [00:05:23] mrbkap: can you land 348810 pretty please? :) [00:06:19] I think it's bedtime for me [00:13:38] <@Hixie> man, i go to play one card game and i come back and my scrollback has eighteen occurances of bz saying "talk to hixie" and ninteen occurances of someone trying to avoid talknig to me :-P [00:14:48] Firefox: 'Linux balsa Depend GTK1 (gcc 3.4)' has changed state from Success to Burning. [00:15:30] well, at least balsa is back ;) [00:15:49] it is running on the branch now too? [00:16:14] navin [chatzilla@405BBEF.AC8AF247.EEBBAFDA.IP] has joined #developers [00:16:15] <@stuart> BALSAAAAAAAAA [00:16:26] <@stuart> i <3 balsa [00:16:49] hey wow it's building [00:18:16] hey hixie [00:18:47] long card game? [00:19:25] <@Hixie> Killer Bunnies [00:19:28] <@Hixie> very long card game [00:20:42] mconnor: done. [00:20:51] mrbkap: woo! [00:21:37] Cartman [chatzilla@moz-6E4EB9A1.austin.ibm.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.67+ [SeaMonkey 1.0.4/2006072904] [00:22:31] roc: please fix column crashes [00:25:11] any bug in particular? [00:27:45] dria [dria@moz-B7FD1F7E.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [00:29:41] schrep [schrep@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] has quit IRC: Quit: The computer fell asleep [00:30:14] rob_strong [rob_strong@moz-8AA8F10E.sub-70-198-29.myvzw.com] has joined #developers [00:32:56] roc: guess you're gonna have to fix them all, then. [00:33:26] jlurz [chatzilla@moz-3D6A6E92.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/0000000000] [00:34:10] Mnyromyr [MnyroWork@B9DD71DB.895A7D73.450559D8.IP] has joined #developers [00:34:52] Firefox: 'Linux balsa Depend GTK1 (gcc 3.4)' has changed state from Burning to Test Failed. [00:35:07] <@stuart> mmm [00:41:38] smaug [chatzilla@93F5D356.851FF927.9BAB7257.IP] has joined #developers [00:43:16] only one hour 20 minutes to go [00:47:01] romaxa [romaxa@B9E362E3.A93BF801.75E1F41B.IP] has quit IRC: Client exited [00:47:38] smuag: ping [00:47:39] bah, smaug even [00:47:44] WeirdAl: hi [00:48:20] smaug: I really, really like your idea about a modification to XTF for HTML [00:48:27] kbrosnan [kbrosnan@moz-653FD72.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [00:48:44] question is, how? [00:49:32] (XBL via XTF into HTML solves a bunch of problems) [00:50:21] Modifying XTF Service and namespace manager a bit. that is enough for new elements [00:50:37] but adding new features to htmlinputelement is different [00:50:59] yeah, I figured that much - but then, the implementation and handlers I don't see moving out of C++ anyway [00:51:38] ? [00:51:43] and the layout / content, well, that's mutable :) [00:52:14] yuri [chatzilla@14C4D133.7B166A9.75493C88.IP] has joined #developers [00:52:27] I don't see how we can do new DOM properties in HTMLInputElement in anything but nsHTMLInputElement.cpp, because they have to support current controls as well [00:52:58] I'd not complain much if I were wrong [00:53:21] yuri [chatzilla@14C4D133.7B166A9.75493C88.IP] is now known as IRCMonkey5270525 [00:53:28] (nsHTMLInputElement is a mess, btw) [00:53:45] Mook [mook@moz-62E4046C.dynamic.hinet.net] is now known as Montague [00:53:47] we may want to consider a wholesale redesign of nsHTMLInputElement [00:54:15] (I wonder why) [00:54:41] but anyway, we could think of some other way to extend elements [00:54:48] nsHTMLInputElement has to support about eight different types of form control already, and we'll be adding another eight at least [00:55:17] maybe we should take a step back and look at that [00:55:23] I mean some new hopefully simple ... [00:55:50] though, input element or any form element is difficult [00:55:54] -- this doesn't even cover the new DOM properties and methods WF2 adds to InputElement [00:57:13] yason [yason@moz-5E2C022F.hybrid.fi] has joined #developers [00:57:27] I'm proposing we at least consider ripping the guts out of nsHTMLInputElement.cpp and redoing it in different types of controls and bindings [00:58:11] ... including that old XBLFC proposal that never really took off [00:58:55] oh, but bz did raise the point of "what happens when the type attribute changes" :( [00:58:59] WeirdAl forgot that [00:59:07] there could be a simple "typeless" base inputelement [00:59:23] that's sort of what I was thinking [00:59:25] which owns the current typeobject [00:59:32] O_O [00:59:44] that's not a bad idea :) [01:00:00] gavin2 [gavin.shar@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #developers [01:00:06] what's the advantage of that? [01:00:46] adding extensions should be easier [01:00:54] hmm [01:01:01] dunno about that [01:01:11] I guess it means that per-type state could be stored more easily [01:01:15] WeirdAl is surprised he's even thinking about scrapping nsHTMLInputElement.cpp and starting over somewhat [01:01:20] maybe [01:01:40] niiice. gmail shows the alt text of images in the message summary [01:02:32] interesting [01:02:51] if you type an ftp path into the gnome filepicker, it prompts you to log in] [01:03:21] I wonder if it'll work over ssh [01:03:37] I'd bet on it [01:04:07] gnome-vfs provides a lot of nice functionality, even if it's apparently not too fun to work with it and requires the GNOME stack [01:04:17] or some of that stack [01:04:25] db48x: try sftp instead of ssh, tho [01:06:40] gavin2 [gavin.shar@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit IRC: Client exited [01:06:51] IRCMonkey5270525 [chatzilla@14C4D133.7B166A9.75493C88.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814] [01:07:37] schrep [schrep@moz-7542B0EB.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #developers [01:12:33] brendan [brendaneic@moz-42090664.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #developers [01:12:37] ChanServ [services@localhost.net] has set mode +o brendan [01:14:00] wow, I underestimated. HTML4 + WF2 input types add up to twenty four. [01:14:16] we need to send in Jack Bauer. [01:16:23] Montague [mook@moz-62E4046C.dynamic.hinet.net] is now known as Mook [01:17:20] piratepenguin [declan@EA58379B.845C0EFD.9D79F7D7.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [01:17:26] if I do |aPtr->DoFoo(nsnull);|, implement the object behind aPtr in JS, and doFoo is specified in IDL as |void doFoo(in string str);|, will I see |str == null| in JS, or will XPConnect barf? [01:18:27] I think you'll have str == null [01:18:33] pretty sure of it [01:19:34] Is string = char *? [01:19:42] yes [01:19:49] Ah, what's nsAString? [01:19:53] mrbkap always forgets. [01:19:55] AString [01:20:02] indeed. [01:20:42] schrep [schrep@moz-7542B0EB.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [01:22:03] yay, 15kB/s download speed [01:22:33] db48x wonders if it's his connection, or just that the remote site is bogged down [01:25:09] Waldo|mac pretends it is and moves on [01:27:42] schrep [schrep@moz-7542B0EB.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #developers [01:28:05] smaug, roc, I just quoted you on the wiki design page [01:28:56] WeirdAl thinks he's updated it for everyone's comments so far [01:29:48] anyone got 7-8 hours of scrollback? [01:30:38] Neil [neil@805FBB74.43DBE11A.6FB37ABF.IP] has joined #developers [01:30:58] NeilAway: which parts? I probably have 99% of it [01:31:19] timeless almost certainly does [01:31:24] Neil [neil@805FBB74.43DBE11A.6FB37ABF.IP] is now known as NeilZZZ [01:31:41] yeah, his timelyx account would probably have it [01:34:11] NeilAway: yes, what do you need? [01:34:33] ideally about 7.5 to about 2.5 hours ago please [01:35:00] ok, just a sec [01:35:54] do you prefer any particular delivery method? [01:36:09] I can stick it on a web server if you want [01:36:20] so... someone asked about firefox-bin.pure [01:36:44] the reason for that is that the firefox shell script that ships w/ official firefox maps -p to purify firefox [01:37:07] if you use -P instead, you'll get the results you wanted [01:38:43] db48x: I guess I prefer web server, thanks [01:39:00] ok, it's already on it's way there… [01:40:40] http://db48x.net/temp/channel_%23developers.mozilla_2006.08.16.log [01:42:02] pkasting_home [pkasting@moz-878F2D7D.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #developers [01:42:21] Freeze in 15 minutes! :D [01:42:52] :-\ [01:43:24] is there a bug for sides of active tabs being too low? [01:43:51] timeless: can we possibly change that? since on windows it doesn't, we have tons of windows-users advising people to use -p on mac/linux [01:44:39] timeless: yeah, I figured that out [01:45:02] could we change it on the purify users? probably [01:46:10] changing it on the windows users would work, too, but probably more slowly [01:47:04] philor: no way. we can explain what we did to the purify users, and they will understand and not complain [01:48:26] gavin: I've been away... did your patch that fixes the Go button spacing on Linux land? [01:48:40] pkasting_home: something did [01:48:48] NeilZZZ [neil@805FBB74.43DBE11A.6FB37ABF.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [01:49:03] pkasting: a patch that should fix that problem landed [01:50:36] gavin: oh dear, bug 348911 is not fixed? [01:50:56] pkasting: I don't know [01:51:01] pkasting_home: it should be okay now [01:51:14] pkasting_home: some other patch nuked parts of my patch that I would be fixing [01:51:28] LOL this is craziness :) [01:51:49] biesi_ [chb@sjs-130-65-240-177.sjsu.edu] has joined #developers [01:51:58] though I would love to have someone in win32 verify [01:52:17] I wish I had my linux build at work so I could verify claims that bug 347447 is actually fixed [01:52:20] wait, I thought I was looking for someone with linux to verify [01:52:24] Because I don't believe it [01:52:56] Neil [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #developers [01:53:09] gavin: I screwed up unbitrotting a patch and screwed up windows, causing bug 348911 [01:53:19] biesi_ [chb@sjs-130-65-240-177.sjsu.edu] has quit IRC: Quit: Verlassend [01:53:25] and which patch fixed it? [01:53:42] no clue, but the code I was gonna fix isn't there anymore :) [01:53:50] lemme check the logs [01:54:00] Neil [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] is now known as NeilZZZ [01:54:08] mwu: Definitely retest, verify, and mark that bug appropriately, because that bug is bad [01:55:32] mw22_away [chatzilla@ABC50AD1.D68BE5F3.29424C4.IP] has joined #developers [01:56:52] I wish we'd just get rid of the bevels on the linux toolbarbuttons if we're doing it on Classic [01:57:04] They screw up so much stuff with those back and forward buttons [01:57:17] yuri [chatzilla@7F770D74.DF1EA6F9.75493C88.IP] has joined #developers [01:57:25] And it looks freaking bizarre to not have them on the go, search, or tab control buttons, and have them on back/forward etc. [01:57:36] Sigh [01:58:07] pkasting_home: crap [01:58:12] I was looking in the wrong tree [01:58:18] mwu: not fixed then, huh [01:58:29] pkasting: I got a minute or two, lemme fix it [01:58:37] well, my watch says you have... -1 minutes :( [01:59:06] pkasting_home: my watch is synced to atomic time [01:59:09] I'd give you a+, but I'm not a driver :) [01:59:50] I know... land it and say "requesting post facto approval for already-landed patch..." [02:00:12] tick tock [02:00:46] TEH FREEZE [02:01:10] mwu: quick! hurry! The clock strikes! Don't forget your glass slipper! [02:01:32] romaxa [romaxa@5147B1D6.FCB50AFC.AB646A19.IP] has joined #developers [02:02:57] bz_sleep: ping [02:03:01] doh [02:03:13] he's sleepPing [02:03:17] raj [raj@CEF81623.6EEDF54B.F3334A4B.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: raj [02:03:30] Mozilla1.8: 'Linux balsa Depend Fx-GTK1-GCC3.4' has changed state from Burning to Success. [02:03:38] I noticed. [02:03:46] schrep: ping [02:03:46] if I were a jerk, I'd change the topic to reflect the freeze - but I already own the topic. [02:04:15] hahah, as if by clockwork balsa went green at midnight [02:04:27] hehe [02:04:30] yah [02:04:33] you noticed that too, huh? [02:04:45] I'd open the tree, but... I made that mistake once [02:04:49] preed: great timing :) [02:04:54] I try [02:06:01] sayrer [chatzilla@moz-D9DB9F78.cable.mindspring.com] is now known as sayrer_FROZEN [02:06:19] gr, why is cvs commit not working [02:06:27] mwu: error? [02:06:27] eh, I give up [02:06:31] gaoming [chatzilla@C311BB7D.9DD24A9C.6439CC76.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [02:06:34] it's just stalled [02:06:38] try with cvs -t [02:06:41] what that? [02:06:54] -t Show trace of program execution (repeat for more [02:06:58] verbosity) -- try with -n. [02:06:58] well, not now, probably ;-) [02:07:03] basically, it's verbose [02:07:08] eh, I'm attaching a patch and giving up for now [02:07:10] I only got cvs access today [02:07:22] still learning how to use it right [02:07:38] gaoming [chatzilla@64D3723C.770FC355.6439CC76.IP] has joined #developers [02:08:05] mwu: you're probably using it correctly, it's just not always instantaneous [02:08:32] db48x: it was when I was commiting to 1.8.0 today [02:08:37] all right, good night all [02:08:58] did ethereal as a project die or something, or why does it seem to have been replaced by the equivalent "Wireshark" in FC5? [02:09:07] name changed [02:09:10] WeirdAl [chatzilla@moz-F897DC70.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814] [02:09:18] mwu: you were trying to commit to branch w/o approval? [02:09:18] hm, wonder why [02:09:19] Waldo|mac: renamed [02:09:33] pkasting_home: no, I was fixing a patch that was already approved [02:09:55] mano bitrotted me and some lines that went in one css rule landed in another [02:10:16] mwu: also Mozilla's CVS goes really amazingly mind-bogglingly slowly (like 5 minutes per action) with certain versions of SSH, make sure you have a recent SSH on your machine [02:10:20] mwu: i did? [02:10:27] mwu: attach the patch and get Mano to commit it for you then [02:10:37] or gavin [02:10:40] or somebody [02:10:45] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=234182 [02:11:01] Mano: wanna help out? :) [02:11:13] mwu: has approval? [02:11:39] Mano: it's fixing the patch for 347470 which was already approved [02:11:42] Mano: it makes the patch that was committed actually be the one that got approval :) [02:11:59] pkasting_home: what an approach. [02:12:02] or something like that [02:12:16] mwu: k, landing, what's the bug #? [02:12:33] 347470 [02:12:33] 347470, but I attached it to 348911 [02:12:42] ok, yeah [02:12:45] use 347470 [02:12:57] 348911 is the actual bug this fixes, 347470 was the original bug this is really part of [02:13:38] mconnor had given r+/a+ to patch v2 on that which looked like this; mwu unbitrotted to patch v3 and checked in. This makes v3 like v2 where it accidentally wasn't [02:13:51] NeilZZZ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [02:13:57] The result of the mistake was bug 348911, which this fixes [02:14:00] Bleh :) [02:15:57] Neil [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #developers [02:16:33] Neil [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] is now known as NeilZZZ [02:17:04] db48x: thanks [02:17:22] mwu: checked i [02:17:27] NeilAway: you're welcome, glad to help [02:17:36] Mano: thanks! [02:17:46] Uri [chatzilla@11EB5A41.4EE4A751.F42F994A.IP] has joined #developers [02:18:01] Mano: you spelled my last name wrong :p [02:18:10] laurentj [laurentj@2D8FB7E9.FB8B17DB.34E6C24D.IP] has joined #developers [02:18:16] oh well [02:18:22] oops [02:18:30] 1.8 tinderbox still doesn't seem to have caught the commit [02:18:55] pkasting_home: use bonsai. [02:19:06] directly, that's. [02:19:19] The ability to do that is something I do not have [02:19:34] I don't understand how people can use bonsai, I just wait for tinderbox to catch it :D [02:19:53] Probably one or botht hose bugs in bugzilla should be updated... [02:20:05] you can just view the recent checkins [02:22:19] http://bonsai.mozilla.org/cvsquery.cgi?branch=&date=hours&hours=2 is useful [02:23:28] Firefox: 'Linux balsa Depend GTK1 (gcc 3.4)' has changed state from Test Failed to Success. [02:23:57] raj [raj@moz-B08DF7D8.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #developers [02:25:15] pkasting_home: you were worried about Linux tabstrip stuff? understanding that there's a lot of weird themes out there, which themes are important for b2? [02:26:22] mconnor: you mean Linux themes, right? I'm testing using whatever the Ubuntu default is in breezy, which I think is Human (GNOME) [02:26:34] But I think the problems are very similar on Clearlooks and other Linux themes [02:26:46] http://steelgryphon.com/random/Screenshot-1.png <-- clearlooks on FC4 [02:26:49] preed 's finger hovers over the "open tree" button [02:26:54] At least, all the screenshots I've seen of other Linux themes show the same problems I'm experiencing [02:27:21] mconnor 's finger hovers near the other "close tree" button [02:27:51] mconnor: yeah, the Fx2 screenshot near the top of that looks a lot like mine [02:28:24] Try getting tab scroll arrows up and then hovering the right hand buttons on the tab bar and seeing if they bevel weirdly [02:29:11] Or just try clicking through the 8 or so Linux tab strip bugs I filed earlier this evening, which I think I CCed you on and marked as blocking various other theme bugs :) [02:29:14] pkasting_home: oh, there's a bit of funkiness there [02:29:17] sayrer_FROZEN [chatzilla@moz-D9DB9F78.cable.mindspring.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [02:29:31] SeaMonkey has changed state from closed to open. [02:29:35] pkasting_home: but totally not enough to block on :) [02:29:40] Yeah, using the All Tabs menu causes some oddness, and just looking at the buttons things don't really seem right... [02:29:45] Firefox has changed state from closed to open. [02:29:50] preed: open the tree [02:29:53] Thunderbird has changed state from closed to open. [02:29:59] Camino has changed state from closed to open. [02:30:03] schrep: ^^^^ [02:30:08] Mozilla1.8 has changed state from closed to open. [02:30:12] Mozilla1.8-SeaMonkey has changed state from closed to open. [02:30:16] pkasting_home: but in normal 1-8 tabsets, we're looking great! [02:30:19] Mozilla1.8.0 has changed state from closed to open. [02:30:23] Firefox-Cairo has changed state from closed to open. [02:30:27] pkasting_home: its way way better than Windows Classic :) [02:30:49] mconnor: also note the go button, and what happens when you mouseover the back and forward buttons... [02:31:15] mconnor: in any case, I was talking to beltzner about what sorts of bugs are worth blocking and what aren't, so I understood the philosophy [02:31:30] schrep: I'll be up for a bit longer; ping me if necessary [02:31:41] mconnor: and it sounds like things that look hideous but don't break browser usage entirely (like a lot of these) are not B2 blockers [02:31:59] mconnor: but things which are technically scary to fix well might be B2 blockers even if they wouldn't otherwise be [02:32:26] preed: roger - but I think we are god for now [02:32:39] mwu [mikew@moz-C62DB612.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [02:32:59] NeilZZZ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [02:33:29] mconnor: so in that sense I was worried about the bug to make the URL bar dropmarker nonnative and have it, the go endcap, and the search encaps all properly scale vertically. Those are all fixable, it's just tricky to get the CSS and images right. So in that spirit I wrote some detailed comments on bug 348138 (and a note on bug 347616) [02:33:52] pkasting_home: your detailed comments hurt my brain dude :) [02:33:53] It might be worth doing a partial fix for those for B2 and then tweaking them to be better by RC1 [02:33:54] schrep: a bit sacreligious, isn't that? [02:34:09] daim [David_Mart@moz-543F2594.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #developers [02:34:27] reed: depends on your point of view :-) [02:34:44] mconnor: just read bug 348138 comment 2, and the very last paragraph of comment 3 :) [02:35:01] beaufour_away [beaufour@1B5DCFE3.51D153FF.92D4E826.IP] has joined #developers [02:35:11] mconnor [mconnor@moz-B77DEAEB.mozilla.org] has changed topic to "Use the new pastebin at http://pastebin.mozilla.org || http://landfill.mozilla.org/mxr-test || Crop circle complete || http://wiki.mozilla.org/DOM:Web_Forms_2.0 for Gecko design and approach - please read and offer feedback | Use the new pastebin at http://pastebin.mozilla.org || http://landfill.mozilla.or" [02:35:23] WTFtopic [02:35:40] reed hits mconnor [02:35:43] pkasting_home: I'm inclined to just accept them not looking quite right on Linux and super large fonts :) [02:35:52] I will [02:35:54] reed [reed@moz-AC62DFA1.griffis.dynamic.msstate.edu] has changed topic to "Use the new pastebin at http://pastebin.mozilla.org || http://landfill.mozilla.org/mxr-test || Crop circle complete || http://wiki.mozilla.org/DOM:Web_Forms_2.0 for Gecko design and approach - please read and offer feedback" [02:35:57] I win [02:36:16] mconnor: I'm not worried about them blocking usage or looking bad [02:36:33] mconnor: I'm worried that they need to be fixed by final but the fixes will be tricky and difficult [02:37:02] mconnor: (Well, I AM worried that they look bad, but I've been told that's not a B2 blocker, so I'm ignoring that.) [02:37:03] mconnor [mconnor@moz-B77DEAEB.mozilla.org] has changed topic to "Use the new pastebin at http://pastebin.mozilla.org || http://landfill.mozilla.org/mxr-test || Crop circle complete || http://wiki.mozilla.org/DOM:Web_Forms_2.0 for Gecko design and approach - please read and offer feedback | I think we are god for now" [02:37:28] beaufour_away [beaufour@1B5DCFE3.51D153FF.92D4E826.IP] is now known as beaufour [02:37:33] pkasting_home: our risk tolerance just before b2 is way lower than immediately after b2 minibranches :) [02:38:34] "risk"? I'm trying to _minimize_ risk here... [02:40:01] Jesse_ [jesse@moz-9C41F208.san.res.rr.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Jesse_ [02:42:10] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #developers [02:42:16] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] is now known as NeilZZZ [02:42:45] Oh LOL that Aronnax guy strikes again [02:42:56] See http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/josh/archives/2006/08/cocoa_firefox_nightly_builds_o.html comment 4 [02:43:03] hahahahaha [02:43:43] haha [02:44:28] beltzner: how could you destroy Mac Firefox that way? [02:45:19] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #developers [02:45:40] Oh those hideous Mac Firefox theme people! [02:46:00] and I'm not sure that preed / coop would like being called Firefox developers [02:46:03] :p [02:46:06] NeilZZZ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [02:46:42] I just like how he posted this _after_ we all sat and listen to him rant for an hour [02:47:39] preed: wanna update the tb status message as well? [02:47:42] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] is now known as NeilZZZ [02:48:47] pkasting_home: I love how he'd ignore the part where I was like "all of us are Mac users, next question?" [02:49:11] You may be Mac users, but you're all trying your hardest to kill the Mac anyway! [02:49:14] Clearly! [02:49:36] smontagu: oh, yeah [02:50:23] pkasting_home: mconnor sure does, sometimes. [02:50:36] smontagu: got the one on the SeaMonkey page; any others? [02:50:57] firewolfbot: ping [02:51:00] gavin: pong [02:52:04] Mano: dude, remember the days when I reviewed thousands of lines of Mac patches even though I didn't have a Mac? just so 1.5 would be better! [02:53:06] preed: that's the only one I notice :) [02:53:37] beaufour chuckles at bug 340318 [02:53:40] mconnor: I remember the days when I reviewed thousands of lines. ;) [02:55:08] beaufour: Who's the 54-year-old guy? [02:55:36] reed: comment 70 [02:55:59] yeah [02:56:41] but who is he? [02:56:54] or is Will saying he's the 54-year-old guy? [02:57:07] no... [02:57:14] is comment 70 really that unclear? [02:58:20] he's saying he knows a 54-year-old that apparently reported so many [02:58:24] bugs and "never 1 fixed" and "he gets same lousy attitude from you all" [02:58:27] yes... [02:58:31] <@stuart> gavin is 54 [02:58:34] so, who's the 54-year-old guy? [02:58:38] that's my question [02:58:38] lol [02:58:41] someone he knows [02:58:44] <@stuart> i met him once [02:58:44] <@stuart> im sure he's that old [02:58:56] I think he is lying about his age [02:59:01] navin [chatzilla@405BBEF.AC8AF247.EEBBAFDA.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [02:59:07] philor [ringnalda@moz-6C9C0D4B.eug.or.uspops.net] has quit IRC: Quit: philor [02:59:28] have bots even existed 54 years??? [02:59:47] <@stuart> my internets are slow [02:59:52] <@stuart> otherwise wikipedia would tell me [02:59:53] Mossop_sleep [Mossop@moz-4386CB1E.swan.cable.ntl.com] is now known as Mossop [02:59:54] stuart: need more gambling [03:00:09] tH [r@87.102.36.237] has joined #developers [03:00:11] try betting on some horse races [03:00:14] <@stuart> hah [03:00:22] <@stuart> craps is my new game! [03:01:11] windows font substitution isn't enough of a gamble? [03:01:11] beaufour: thanks for the bug number, I"m grinning wider and wider reading it [03:01:41] it's a nice way to start the day :) [03:02:05] "Could you, or that 54 year old guy, point me to those bugs, please?" [03:02:15] Oh man this bug is LOL [03:02:43] I'd almost like to email him to tell him he made my day... [03:02:46] dbaron [dbaron@moz-1559392A.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [03:02:51] But checking gmail would probably make his machine crash [03:03:38] haha [03:05:22] I think timeless' frustration with him kinda set him off though :( [03:06:06] I would be frustrated, too. [03:06:33] RESO WFM, and move on? :P [03:08:19] frustrated like timeless [03:08:25] not looney like the guy [03:08:28] schrep [schrep@moz-7542B0EB.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit IRC: Quit: [03:08:37] NeilZZZ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [03:08:39] glazou [daniel@moz-204094DD.disruptive-innovations.fr] has joined #developers [03:08:43] bonjour [03:08:53] sabahh al heir [03:08:55] glazou! [03:09:09] glazou: When are we going to see your contenteditable patch :) [03:09:23] ask peterv [03:09:30] it's his bug [03:09:54] bjacques [bjacques@734EC97A.688B681D.9F751283.IP] has joined #developers [03:09:54] I tried a possible approach and he chose another one [03:10:09] glazou [daniel@moz-204094DD.disruptive-innovations.fr] is now known as glazou_sick [03:10:16] oh... I thought on your blog you posted that you had it working [03:10:17] myk [chatzilla@moz-7B3C332.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [03:10:21] sure [03:10:23] it works [03:11:27] myk [chatzilla@moz-7B3C332.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #developers [03:11:46] a patch on the bug might be helpful to some of us who are interested, even if peterv wishes to do somethings differently... [03:11:59] there is a patch on the bug [03:12:07] Fufie [lambada@6645D3DE.EEEF76E9.52A1A62D.IP] has joined #developers [03:12:07] peterv even reviewed it [03:12:48] glazou_sick [daniel@moz-204094DD.disruptive-innovations.fr] is now known as glazou_phone [03:13:01] oh... ok. I am out of it then, sorry [03:13:16] when is peterv going to land his fix? [03:13:32] which bug # is this? [03:13:47] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #developers [03:14:24] 237964 [03:14:31] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] is now known as NeilZZZ [03:14:33] gavin [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [03:15:29] navin [chatzilla@6981F66A.4265CEB4.547774E7.IP] has joined #developers [03:17:31] Ah [03:17:58] Looks from skimming like peterv's approach will probably be nicer for the spellcheck stuff in the incredible gruesome brokenness we've been running into with designmode [03:19:36] gavin [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #developers [03:23:51] Jesse_ [jesse@moz-9C41F208.san.res.rr.com] has joined #developers [03:27:01] NeilZZZ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [03:29:17] yuri [chatzilla@7F770D74.DF1EA6F9.75493C88.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814] [03:32:00] db48x scratches his head [03:32:28] has anyone ever had all of the xul in some window get scrunched up against the edge of a window? [03:32:49] it's like the width is very small or something… [03:36:45] bedtime [03:36:53] Have fun freezing and stuff [03:36:56] pkasting_home [pkasting@moz-878F2D7D.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [03:37:18] Hixie: ping [03:37:21] glazou_phone [daniel@moz-204094DD.disruptive-innovations.fr] is now known as glazou [03:37:29] beaufour [beaufour@1B5DCFE3.51D153FF.92D4E826.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Hasta luego [03:38:59] brendan [brendaneic@moz-42090664.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Quit: brendan [03:39:17] huh, it only happens if I have this inside the window [03:40:01] <@Hixie> glazou: pong [03:40:06] db48x wallops himself [03:40:42] ………… is bad [03:41:47] Hixie: is michael kay a total moron ? [03:41:57] see css wg [03:42:30] alfred [alfred@moz-F530B258.sun.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [03:46:53] madewokherd [urk@moz-148F0076.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Client exited [03:48:10] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #developers [03:48:48] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] is now known as NeilZZZ [03:49:32] Hmm... 340318#c74 - $20 says that's Will again with a new account :P [03:49:49] linuxmigration [linuxmigra@moz-4C8836FC.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net] is now known as linuxmigration|afk [03:54:39] db48x: that's not strictly illegal, you can nest if you want [03:55:46] <@Hixie> glazou: replied [03:55:51] <@Hixie> glazou: and Reply-To set to www-style [03:56:10] <@Hixie> glazou: enjoy [03:57:26] NeilAway: yea, it didn't complain, but it it made itself and everything else in the dialog about 100px wide [04:04:13] which was somewhat sub-optimal ### Log session terminated at Thu Aug 17 04:18:26 2006 ### ### Log session started at Thu Aug 17 04:18:46 2006 ### [04:18:46] db48x [db48x@moz-12F5BD2C.sub-70-196-109.myvzw.com] has joined #developers [04:18:46] Channel topic is: Use the new pastebin at http://pastebin.mozilla.org || http://landfill.mozilla.org/mxr-test || Crop circle complete || http://wiki.mozilla.org/DOM:Web_Forms_2.0 for Gecko design and approach - please read and offer feedback | I think we are god for now [04:18:46] Topic was set by mconnor!*@* on Thu Aug 17 02:38:47 2006 [04:18:52] sand.mozilla.org [*@*] has set channel mode +snr [04:18:52] Channel was created at Thu Aug 10 23:24:33 2006 [04:18:55] Channel synchronized in 8.849 seconds [04:20:58] Mano [chatzilla@261D46AC.D8CD2B94.53616853.IP] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [04:22:56] daim [David_Mart@48CB6E9C.21EE29D7.3E402BC7.IP] has joined #developers [04:25:48] <@Hixie> wtf [04:26:00] <@Hixie> why is the h1+h2 rule not matching the h2 at the top in http://www.mozilla.org/projects/xbl/xbl2.html [04:26:16] <@Hixie> mozilla is broken., [04:26:43] ginn [ginn@moz-887A00C6.sun.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [04:29:39] Hixie: who says it isn't matching? [04:30:05] <@Hixie> it isn't on my build [04:30:57] wfm unless I'm missing something [04:32:20] <@Hixie> how big a gap do you get between the first line and the second? [04:33:13] Anatolik: copyImage uses document.popupNode [04:33:26] about the same as between two lines of text [04:33:55] <@Hixie> there should be no gap at all [04:34:05] and DomI says computed style is margin: 0pt [04:34:12] <@Hixie> OH [04:34:15] <@Hixie> i see the problem [04:34:24] <@Hixie> my commit script forgot to escape the "+" signs [04:34:34] <@Hixie> so they all became spaces in CVS [04:34:41] <@Hixie> awesome [04:34:48] I mean margin-top 0px [04:35:37] <@Hixie> wait, you actually have a rule that says h1 + h2 ? [04:35:43] sure do [04:36:16] yup, same here [04:36:18] <@Hixie> you're hitting a cache somewhere [04:36:25] <@Hixie> the server isn't sending back any +s [04:36:28] yason [yason@moz-5E2C022F.hybrid.fi] has quit IRC: Client exited [04:36:59] 2 NeilAway: so,... which image will be copied ? [04:37:00] <@Hixie> either that or i've got bigger problems than i thought [04:37:28] Anatolik: document.popupNode should be an HTML element [04:38:17] 2 NeilAway: i see, I have page with for example 5 images [04:38:32] if i'll call copyImage - which one will be copied then ? [04:38:36] yason [yason@moz-5E2C022F.hybrid.fi] has joined #developers [04:41:34] rob_strong [rob_strong@moz-8AA8F10E.sub-70-198-29.myvzw.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9a1/2006070508] [04:43:51] Hannibal [Hannibal@FF672C8A.2DD6448.BB6EDB21.IP] has joined #developers [04:49:22] Mossop [Mossop@moz-4386CB1E.swan.cable.ntl.com] is now known as Mossop_busy [04:50:01] WizKid [hesslow@F74A873A.A2758F9F.CB45D44D.IP] has joined #developers [04:52:00] glazou: ping? [04:53:45] Anatolik [tolikk@D9106C22.4D034417.BFECE6BC.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [04:59:14] db48x: pong [04:59:37] glazou: hey, I've a question about nsFontSizeStateCommand [04:59:44] shoot [04:59:46] http://landfill.mozilla.org/mxr-test/mozilla1.8.0.x/source/editor/composer/src/nsComposerCommands.cpp#831 [04:59:54] looking [05:00:00] I've been trying to figure out why those are the only values you can pass in for the state [05:00:17] hold on a sec, i'm not there yet [05:00:22] I've been wandering around in cssutils and stuff, but I can't really tell :) [05:00:25] heh, ok [05:00:37] Anatolik: whichever one you point document.popupNode to [05:01:36] Sander [me@E8B87793.1C0CBD4D.BA851D99.IP] has joined #developers [05:02:50] db48x: probably because html handles only 7 values for font size [05:02:54] Anatolik [tolikk@moz-7DB8D648.user.matrix.farlep.net] has joined #developers [05:03:00] and we needed correspondance with the css values [05:03:05] from xx-small to xx-large [05:03:12] and that's 7 values too [05:03:16] gavin [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [05:03:24] Wow, I just got a spam purporting to be from @mozillaquest.com. Now that brings backs memories... [05:03:24] 2 NeilAway: do you know how to copy image to clipboard from xpcom component? [05:03:26] glazou: I thought it was something like that [05:04:28] glazou: now, the flip side of that question is if you had to be able to set the font size in pts, but coulndn't change the core, how would you go about it? [05:04:55] oh, and this is 1.8.0 [05:05:37] add a new command ? [05:05:37] Sander: heh. [05:05:43] and the corresponding ui ? [05:06:03] that's was I was thinking [05:06:27] that's doable quite easily with an overlay adding the command [05:06:59] hmmm [05:07:07] but you won't be able to rely on nsHTMLEditor magic [05:07:20] because it knows nothing about sizes like that [05:07:27] yea [05:07:36] that would be quite difficult in fact [05:07:39] so I have to reimplement a bunch of stuff [05:07:44] yeah [05:07:57] <@Hixie> smontagu: yt? [05:08:05] Hixie: ih [05:08:12] db48x: lunch time, bbl [05:08:21] I've noticed that it coellesces (sp?) adjacent nodes with the same style, and a whole bunch of nice things [05:08:27] absolutely [05:08:27] Suggestions for 'coellesces': coalesces, colzas, closes, coleuses, callouses, coulisses, coulises... [05:08:32] <@Hixie> smontagu: can you paste the first two non-blank lines of the source of http://www.mozilla.org/projects/xbl/xbl2.html ? [05:08:40] glazou says "aggregates" [05:08:42] glazou: ok, thanks for your help, I really appreciated :) [05:08:46] np [05:08:56] hwaara [hwaara@5718B00C.2191EBAD.7EF74A51.IP] has joined #developers [05:08:58] [05:09:00] we need to work on an extensibility model for the editor [05:09:00] [05:09:01] gavin_ [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #developers [05:09:05] <@Hixie> wtf [05:09:10] <@Hixie> why do you see a plus sign [05:09:15] <@Hixie> i totally don't get one [05:09:18] because it's there? [05:09:22] <@Hixie> that is the weirdest thing ever [05:09:30] glazou [daniel@moz-204094DD.disruptive-innovations.fr] is now known as glazou_lunch [05:09:36] Anatolik [tolikk@moz-7DB8D648.user.matrix.farlep.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [05:09:39] <@Hixie> how can the server be sending back different stuff for you than me [05:09:41] glazou_lunch: yea, certain parts are, ahem, improvable [05:09:43] <@Hixie> that's totally wacked [05:09:50] Hixie: heh [05:09:56] Hixie: I've had problems that looked like that [05:10:18] Hixie tries a different browser [05:10:33] <@Hixie> it works in IE!!! [05:10:35] <@Hixie> wtf!!! [05:10:40] <@Hixie> it's the trunk that's breaking this!!! [05:10:45] Hixie: is your default charset set to UTF-7 again? [05:10:50] <@Hixie> OH [05:10:57] <@Hixie> for the love of god [05:11:05] <@Hixie> someone set a fucking default charset on this server before i shoot someone [05:11:24] Hixie changes his default to UTF-16 for his sanity [05:11:34] it should not be possible to set your default charset to UTF-7 [05:11:37] or UTF-16 [05:11:48] <@Hixie> hey [05:11:56] <@Hixie> we lost the pref to change the default charset [05:12:13] because UTF-7 introduces XSS security holes on most web sites [05:12:29] it's under Fonts and Colors, please don't ask me why [05:12:34] and UTF-16 breaks the web (along with introducing XSS security holes on most web sites) [05:12:47] <@Hixie> oh yeah [05:12:50] <@Hixie> when did it end up there [05:13:04] stephank [stephank@1F4B3E62.378D8D43.6513BA0F.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [05:13:13] Hixie sets it to IBM-850 [05:13:17] <@Hixie> ok [05:13:19] <@Hixie> right [05:13:21] <@Hixie> so [05:13:26] was your default charset really UTF-7? [05:13:26] <@Hixie> why isn't this getting a charset set [05:13:29] <@Hixie> yes [05:13:29] NeilZZZ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [05:13:47] <@Hixie> (intentionally) [05:13:51] you might have to clear cache after doing that [05:14:00] <@Hixie> nah it works now [05:14:00] why did you set your default charset to UTF-7? [05:14:28] <@Hixie> Jesse_: to catch servers that don't set the default. Though it turns out UTF-7 is a bad choice for that, UTF-16 works much better. [05:14:38] <@Hixie> why ISN'T the server sending a charset [05:14:52] <@Hixie> how do i make it send a charset [05:14:59] WizKid_ [hesslow@moz-2DBCA9FD.swipnet.se] has joined #developers [05:15:21] .htaccess? [05:15:34] <@Hixie> doctor can't edit .htaccess files can it? [05:15:50] why don't you set one yourself? [05:16:17] <@Hixie> ? [05:16:17] dunno what doctor can or can't do [05:16:20] Hixie tries [05:16:49] <@Hixie> hm, it worked [05:16:49] WizKid [hesslow@F74A873A.A2758F9F.CB45D44D.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [05:16:51] <@Hixie> go figure [05:16:58] <@Hixie> let's hope: [05:16:58] <@Hixie> AddDefaultCharset utf-8 [05:16:59] <@Hixie> [05:17:02] <@Hixie> is the right syntax [05:17:06] <@Hixie> (with appropriate newlines) [05:17:28] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #developers [05:18:08] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] is now known as NeilZZZ [05:18:52] <@Hixie> hm [05:19:02] <@Hixie> so someone could insert a bound element into its own shadow tree, i realise [05:19:04] kaie [kaie@moz-29CC6A1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #developers [05:19:25] 've posted a topic on 'gimbalz might fork firefox' in mozilla.dev.apps.firefox... [05:19:28] <@Hixie> but it doesn't seem i have to say anything about that, because that wouldn't actually cause any problems that i can see... [05:19:55] <@Hixie> well, maybe for event bubbling [05:19:56] <@Hixie> hmm [05:22:50] navin: so that's why the blake ross and joe hewitt startup is doing? interesting. [05:23:02] ;) [05:23:34] dont let him know that i disclosed this :( [05:23:45] ... [05:24:10] i was about to blog about it... [05:24:55] jesse: read my personal blog...the proj has lot more details in it... [05:25:45] Hixie looks at http://gimbalz.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ [05:26:16] try havin a look tomorrow... [05:26:19] KaiRo [robert@moz-F2134722.gumpendorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #developers [05:26:21] same result... [05:26:49] workin on it dude...but still concept level... [05:29:02] <@Hixie> man, reading your posts is hard [05:29:07] <@Hixie> you need to learn to spell :-) [05:29:31] crap, navin's overuse of ellipses is contagious [05:30:44] english is not my native lang. But i will try to make it more readable...i think the post here wud be more readable http://navinsylvester.wordpress.com/ [05:31:00] Hannibal [Hannibal@FF672C8A.2DD6448.BB6EDB21.IP] is now known as Hannibal-afk [05:31:49] <@Hixie> so my general encouragement for you would just be to change four things -- replace "..." with ". ", replace "wud" with "would", replace "u" with "you", and replace "frm" with "from" [05:31:53] <@Hixie> that would be a huge help [05:32:37] yea i need a promotion from noobie :) [05:33:15] NeilAway guess that he is the only person who thinks it wud have been funny had Hixie said "that wud be a huge help" [05:34:22] <@Hixie> :-P [05:34:22] Anatolik [tolikk@moz-7DB8D648.user.matrix.farlep.net] has joined #developers [05:34:29] db48x thinks that wud be funny [05:35:23] |<-- NeilAway has left irc.mozilla.org (Ping timeout) [05:35:23] Anatolik: talk to plasticmillion [05:35:47] 2 plasticmillion: hi, can you help me ? [05:35:55] glazou_lunch [daniel@moz-204094DD.disruptive-innovations.fr] is now known as glazou [05:36:25] plasticmillion: I really need you help, 'cause then my project may fail :( [05:36:51] alfred [alfred@moz-F530B258.sun.com] has joined #developers [05:37:05] I have C++ xpcom component, and i have to copy some images from loaded page to clipboard or save them to tmp files each [05:37:21] glazou waits for the next whatwg spec with the normative definition of "WUD" [05:37:25] SHUD [05:37:31] NeilAway likes the housecall progressmeter, it uses fraction signs instead of decimals [05:37:33] glazou: lol [05:38:03] unfortunately it crashes on the pc I'm trying to scan [05:38:14] i've played with nsIClipboardCommands - it copies image, but only if contextMenu is over it, but i have nsIDOMHTMLDocument and i need to copy some if images [05:38:17] Anatolik: probably by copying the code in nsCopySupport.cpp [05:39:00] i've seen it - there are a lot of UNFROZEN interfaces in it [05:40:25] anatolik: most of gecko is unfrozen interfaces :) [05:41:58] raj [raj@moz-B08DF7D8.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Quit: raj [05:41:59] timeless: true [05:44:07] have made the necessary changes [05:44:13] hope its much more readable now [05:44:28] thanks for the suggestion [05:45:43] so, there is no any other options ? [05:47:44] anatolik: allpeers does what you want [05:48:10] be patient [05:49:00] alfred [alfred@moz-F530B258.sun.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [05:52:07] hrm [05:52:09] neil? [05:52:11] glazou? [05:52:23] smontagu pokes NeilAway manually [05:52:34] suppose i wanted the ability to search web content vertically instead of horizontally [05:52:55] i.e. i'm looking at a table, and i want to search the first column before teh second column [05:52:58] s/teh/the/g [05:58:02] timeless: allpeers ? [05:59:15] yes [06:00:49] is it a person ? [06:00:51] or ? [06:01:36] smontagu? [06:01:57] NeilAway: you said to poke you manually if I wanted bug 91312 rereviewed [06:02:52] smontagu: I thought I was referring to the specific attachment, but it doesn't hurt (too much) [06:03:28] Anatolik: allpeers is a program based on gecko, not sure if it's been released yet or not. anyway, the point is that you might be able to see how they do it [06:03:59] smontagu: wait a sec [06:04:13] smontagu: you're saying you can get a tooltip for a page that has since been replaced? [06:04:31] NeilAway: funky, isn't it? [06:04:36] gavin_ [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [06:04:44] timeless: ? [06:04:44] NeilAway: i've tried to set popupNode in xulDocument - so that it to be copied via nsIContentViewerEdit [06:04:52] but it's not copied :( [06:04:55] any ideas? [06:05:09] glazou: see questions about search down [06:05:21] Anatolik: not offhand [06:05:38] Anatolik: unfortunately I don't have a build with a working copy at the moment [06:05:43] uuuh [06:05:58] Anatolik: (cairo-gfx bustage) [06:06:36] timeless: I doubt that you can, really [06:06:46] timeless: nsIFind goes in whatever order the dom nodes are in [06:07:02] timeless: so what's the question exactly ? [06:07:18] because there's no question above [06:07:23] you only said "suppose i wanted the ability to search web content vertically instead of horizontally" [06:07:28] navin [chatzilla@6981F66A.4265CEB4.547774E7.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [06:07:43] smontagu: in that case, we ought to bail out early if the node isn't around any more [06:08:25] db48x - where can i get allpears, site is under develop still ? [06:08:49] smaug: you've looked at the tooltip listener - is there any way it can tell that the node is still visible before firing the tooltip? [06:09:05] NeilAway: the node is still visible [06:09:15] glazou: could it be done? :) [06:09:47] yes [06:09:54] smontagu: how can the node be visible if it doesn't have a window? [06:10:08] gavin_ [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #developers [06:11:04] what is the problem with tooltip? [06:11:26] NeilAway: its pixels are still there on the screen, they don't know it doesn't have a window [06:11:55] smaug: smontagu is managing to fire a tooltip when the popupNode.document.defaultView is null [06:12:54] NeilAway: I suspect that popupNode.document is null too [06:13:09] or rather, that it is already a different document [06:14:34] is this a new feature/bug ? [06:14:58] piratepenguin [declan@moz-FF395ACC.bas503.dsl.esat.net] has joined #developers [06:15:44] don't think so [06:16:02] smaug: probably not, but we never cared before [06:16:14] ok, since I changed tooltip handling yesterday ;) [06:17:01] so why do we care now? [06:17:46] hmm, is this related to bfcache... ? [06:18:26] document is already in cache, but tooltip timer gets fired after that... [06:18:42] smaug is just guessing [06:19:24] bfcache is quite recent, right? because I get the same effect of the tooltip bleeding into the new page on 1.8.0.x [06:19:50] bf = back/forward or blazingly fast? [06:20:33] 1.8.0.x has bfcache [06:20:51] smontagu: actually, that's only relevent for the node with the tooltip attribute [06:20:57] um, I mean smaug [06:21:20] smaug: once the timer starts there's no check on the tooltip node that it's still visible [06:22:13] are you talking about tooltiptimer or autohide timer? [06:23:01] smaug: tooltip show timer [06:23:59] smaug: so if you use then it will check that foo is still in a window [06:24:25] smaug: but for our normal html tooltip support the xul is always in a window (unless you close the browser of course) [06:25:53] NeilAway: we could add a simple check to nsXULTooltipListener::ShowTooltip() that sourcenode's document has a window [06:25:56] db48x sighs [06:26:15] the installer for the Caesar IV demo doesn't work under Cedega [06:26:20] NeilZZZ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [06:26:46] or is it mTargetNode, but anyway, check there that everything is still ok [06:27:39] hmm, is there a testcase for this? [06:27:46] and is this 1.8.x only [06:27:51] Jesse_: did you have a test case for a crash or something when right-clicking on an element that got removed from the DOM? [06:27:56] or does this still happen on trunk [06:28:16] NeilAway: i don't think so [06:28:20] smaug: if I understand smontagu it still happens on trunk [06:28:47] yes, happens on trunk [06:28:49] Jesse_: hmm, maybe I'm thinking of the right-clicking an element causing a page load confusing the context menu [06:28:56] does anyone know anything about nsFastLoadPtr ? [06:29:01] it seems unused, and it's bugging me [06:29:12] because it has exported private data members [06:29:59] Anatolik: let me check how we do that [06:32:47] plasticmillion [06:32:52] i've done it [06:33:22] ok cool [06:34:24] i've set popupNode and ised [06:34:34] if (NS_SUCCEEDED(pContVEdit->CopyImage(nsIContentViewerEdit::COPY_IMAGE_DATA))) [06:34:55] and it works, but not all images are copied [06:35:04] maybe it's a problem with them [06:35:17] I guess that's what we do as well [06:35:21] "it should work" [06:38:38] jwatt [roslea@jwatt.irc.users.mozilla.org] has joined #developers [06:39:13] jwatt [roslea@jwatt.irc.users.mozilla.org] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 2.0b1/2006071020] [06:43:17] plasticmillion: it works :) [06:43:22] bah, I just crashed in RemoveTooltipSupport [06:43:26] by to everyone [06:44:05] NeilAway - thanx for tip about popupNode -- it REALLY helped :) [06:44:09] xpt files are identical on all platforms, right? [06:44:25] NeilAway: how did you crash? [06:44:27] plasticmillion: right [06:44:42] stacktrace? [06:45:02] bye [06:45:03] Anatolik [tolikk@moz-7DB8D648.user.matrix.farlep.net] has left #developers [06:45:16] smaug: closing Venkman caused a GC which deleted an event targetted at a document freeing the document which tried to unhook a tooltip listener on the document [06:45:52] NeilAway wonders whether you can set gdb to output the result of bt to a file [06:46:53] yes [06:47:00] there's a trace option somewhere [06:47:26] neilaway: try 'script' [06:47:34] smaug: http://neil.rashbrook.org/stack.txt [06:47:49] timeless: that's not too useful now that I've already auto-attached gdb [06:48:09] piratepenguin [declan@moz-FF395ACC.bas503.dsl.esat.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [06:49:11] timeless: see http://lxr.mozilla.org/mozilla/source/embedding/components/find/src/nsWebBrowserFind.cpp#111 [06:49:21] and see the comment in line 126 [06:49:31] you can implement your own findnext through a command [06:49:47] so, yes, find vertically in tables is possible keeping the rest horizontal [06:49:47] smaug: does the stack suffice, so that I can restart? [06:50:02] glazou: cool [06:50:06] NeilAway: that is enough, thanks [06:50:27] glazou: so this is someting that a js "Extension" could hack together w/ a n xpcom component? :) [06:50:40] smontagu [chatzilla@moz-244E134F.broadband.actcom.net.il] is now known as smontaguAway [06:50:59] yep [06:51:24] but js is probably not enough here [06:51:36] find algo works with nsiframes, not elementsw [06:53:09] could we extend nsIDocShell.ENUMERATE_ to include "search_down_before_across"? [06:53:23] Mossop_busy [Mossop@moz-4386CB1E.swan.cable.ntl.com] is now known as Mossop [06:53:25] why not [06:53:31] what's the use case ? [06:53:38] I mean for vertical find in tables [06:53:42] surkovZzz [alexander@9C1D475.30CD62E0.3FA5AA06.IP] is now known as surkov_ [06:53:47] bugzilla.mozilla.org/describekeywords.cgi [06:53:51] search for 'ue' [06:54:12] or bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?product=mozilla.org&resolution=--- [06:54:17] aaaah [06:54:19] right [06:54:23] search for a reporter but not a qa [06:54:54] then I disagree with your option [06:55:03] my option? [06:55:08] in a table, find should probably search in THs before TDs [06:55:27] and that would solve your problem [06:55:33] hrm, that'd definitely win for describe keywords [06:55:43] it wouldn't win for buglist [06:55:48] but i'll take that win [06:56:10] eh [06:56:19] glazou goes back to syntax highlight [06:58:52] bug 348914 is funny [06:59:37] ispiked: 9i don't think gecko rashed, it sounds like the biometric thing is breaking, unrelated [06:59:59] Jesse_ [jesse@moz-9C41F208.san.res.rr.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Jesse_ [07:02:43] smaug: actually I can't reproduce the bug [07:03:09] smaug: if I have a page with a timed refresh and hover over an element in it then for some reason I get the browser as the tooltip target [07:04:13] timeless: I have a biometric scanner on my vaio too ; works beautifully with ff [07:04:39] at least does not crash [07:05:15] kiko-zzz [kiko@moz-21AE8E0E.dsl.telesp.net.br] is now known as kiko [07:05:35] NeilAway: you mean you can't reproduce the crash? [07:05:48] or the other bug [07:09:27] Jesse_ [jesse@moz-60659AA0.san.res.rr.com] has joined #developers [07:14:54] smaug: the other bug [07:16:06] bsmedberg [bsmedberg@moz-FBF198A7.jst.pa.atlanticbb.net] is now known as bsmedberg-bbl [07:18:26] hrm [07:19:12] dt [darktemple@moz-B46E4156.adl0.adsl.esc.net.au] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [07:20:06] Hannibal-afk [Hannibal@FF672C8A.2DD6448.BB6EDB21.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: off to police station [07:20:29] dt [darktemple@moz-B46E4156.adl0.adsl.esc.net.au] has joined #developers [07:20:46] dt [darktemple@moz-B46E4156.adl0.adsl.esc.net.au] has quit IRC: Quit: [07:23:07] magneto [chatzilla@977E6C1.DEF20D50.74E1C77A.IP] has joined #developers [07:26:49] surkov__ [alexander@9C449DEC.9EBFE0F7.3FA5AA06.IP] has joined #developers [07:26:50] surkov_ [alexander@9C1D475.30CD62E0.3FA5AA06.IP] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [07:30:48] surkov_ [alexander@9C1D475.30CD62E0.3FA5AA06.IP] has joined #developers [07:33:02] surkov__ [alexander@9C449DEC.9EBFE0F7.3FA5AA06.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [07:35:04] pucko [andreas@moz-F22DABDA.tbon.telia.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [07:38:58] pucko [andreas@AACB4C21.F1CC97A8.A74F3D49.IP] has joined #developers [07:39:03] how do I get the FF bin directory using XPCOM? [07:39:54] directory_service CurProcD /usually/ works [07:39:59] pucko [andreas@AACB4C21.F1CC97A8.A74F3D49.IP] is now known as IRCMonkey5270529 [07:40:50] yeah, there's a #define for it in C++, I think [07:41:03] plasticmillion: got your mail, thinking about the best way to proceed [07:41:09] NS_GetSpecialDirectory or something [07:41:24] shaver: okay, our build guys are baffled [07:41:37] plasticmillion: can you link statically against libstdc++? [07:42:00] Linux is a pain... apparently some Fedora distros don't even use the same ID string (they just use "linux" it seems) [07:42:22] the same ID string where? [07:42:43] the platform string [07:42:51] hold on, he's babbling at me in Slovak [07:42:53] ugh [07:42:58] death unto the infidels [07:43:44] apparently Fedora takes the 32-bit version even though the build string is the 64-bit string [07:44:02] and we can't link statically with libstdc++ cause we have 23 shared libraries [07:44:06] that's extremely exciting [07:44:07] our XPI would be like 100 Mb or something [07:44:20] it's so exciting I'm about to jump out the window [07:44:25] plasticmillion wonders whether we really really have to support Linux [07:44:33] well, you would get the Biggest Extension Ever award [07:44:40] bee [07:44:45] heh [07:44:46] stephank [stephank@moz-EC1310D8.speed.planet.nl] has joined #developers [07:45:17] mw22_away [chatzilla@ABC50AD1.D68BE5F3.29424C4.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [07:45:25] shaver: our solution was to have a detailed page for Linux users with instructions about which version to use, and let them figure it out themselves [07:45:42] http://www.allpeers.com/download/which_linux.htm [07:46:07] if there were some way to do the same on AMO that would be one solution, although One XPI to Rule Them All would certainly eliminate a lot of support issues [07:46:28] kaie [kaie@moz-29CC6A1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [07:50:01] plasticmillion: so, no ugly warning if you can't load the component, instead just silently fail? :p [07:50:52] KaiRo [robert@moz-F2134722.gumpendorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [07:51:45] KaiRo [robert@moz-F2134722.gumpendorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #developers [07:52:15] Mook: well our JS stuff works, so the user gets our registration page [07:52:26] they click "next" and nothing happens since we trigger a binary component at that point [07:52:29] not very user-friendly [07:52:38] plasticmillion: right, but your js can also detect that the binary isn't working and give a warning instead [07:52:45] we're planning to add a "wrong version installed" page but it isn't done yet [07:52:49] ah, you beat me to it :p [07:53:05] Firefox-Cairo: 'WINNT 5.2 gaius Depend Reference' has changed state from Success to Burning. [07:53:10] it didn't make the cut for our public beta [07:53:28] I have a much, much crappier version of it, yes :p nsIPromptService FTW! :p [07:54:04] Linux. Grrrrrrrr [07:54:34] all these open source types really make my blood boil [07:54:34] markp [markp@moz-15E04AEE.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #developers [07:54:34] oh [07:54:38] what channel is this again? ;-) [07:54:50] plasticmillion is Just Kidding [07:56:45] btw, do you have the same issue with win32/win64? [07:56:50] beaufour [beaufour@moz-FADE66FE.ip.onderwijs.casematelecom.nl] has joined #developers [07:56:58] shaver: apparently not [07:56:59] while I'm in here weeping into the AMO code [07:57:03] that is exciting! [07:57:09] plasticmillion does a little dance [07:59:31] shaver makes a little love [07:59:45] dria [dria@moz-B7FD1F7E.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #developers [08:01:04] it's ok, I won't tell your wife [08:01:34] magneto [chatzilla@977E6C1.DEF20D50.74E1C77A.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814] [08:02:30] dt [darktemple@moz-B46E4156.adl0.adsl.esc.net.au] has joined #developers [08:03:11] kaie [kaie@moz-29CC6A1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #developers [08:06:21] robc_afk [rcampbell@moz-B7FD1F7E.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] is now known as robcee [08:08:32] aaronlev [chatzilla@moz-B0ED68CF.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #developers [08:11:04] brosnan [kbrosnan@moz-653FD72.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #developers [08:11:55] self [borg@moz-6D7347A.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net] has joined #developers [08:13:13] yason [yason@moz-5E2C022F.hybrid.fi] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [08:14:03] Uri [chatzilla@11EB5A41.4EE4A751.F42F994A.IP] has quit IRC: Client exited [08:30:29] hmm, latest trunk seems to reflow and/or repaint repeatedly if the window size is small [08:32:58] it has something to do with bookmarks... happens only when bookmarks are in the menubar [08:33:04] doronHome [doron@moz-6E4EB9A1.austin.ibm.com] is now known as doron [08:35:02] piratepenguin [declan@CD47771D.4B7B3F0A.81E00CBF.IP] has joined #developers [08:35:45] wolfiR [stark@D8346595.E0FEA68B.F7F6D21D.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [08:37:57] is the 1.8 branch open for checkins? I thought there was a freeze, but not sure [08:39:46] bsmedberg-bbl [bsmedberg@moz-FBF198A7.jst.pa.atlanticbb.net] is now known as bsmedberg [08:40:05] good question! [08:40:10] firewolfbot [firebot@moz-8BCFA482.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [08:40:15] i was wondering that [08:41:31] well, 18 blockers still open [08:41:37] 6 patches awaiting approval [08:45:18] dt [darktemple@moz-B46E4156.adl0.adsl.esc.net.au] has quit IRC: Quit: [08:50:27] self [borg@moz-6D7347A.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.72-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.1/2006012608] [08:53:27] bc [bclary@moz-400A639F.direcpc.com] has quit IRC: Input/output error [08:57:01] Enn [enn@moz-F0E247D9.eicat.ca] has joined #developers [08:57:02] schrep [schrep@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] has joined #developers [08:58:44] danbeck [danbeck@779D5CA1.9CC1D69A.52393332.IP] has joined #developers [09:08:08] anyone knows where is E_UNEXPECTED defined? I could not find it on lxr. [09:09:31] what context? [09:09:53] it's a Win32 or COM error code, but I suspect that name is used in other areas as well [09:10:33] smaug [chatzilla@93F5D356.851FF927.9BAB7257.IP] is now known as smaugAway [09:10:56] shaver: there are lots of places returns that: http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/search?string=E_UNEXPECTED [09:11:25] but I could find out where is it defined. [09:11:26] sure, as COM or Win32 error codes [09:11:30] it's not defined in our code [09:14:03] is it available on linux? I got " error: 'E_UNEXPECTED' was not declared in this scope" in my code. [09:14:12] coop [coop@moz-ED3265B4.sympatico.ca] has joined #developers [09:14:16] not without WINE, I suspect [09:16:19] Mnyromyr [MnyroWork@B9DD71DB.895A7D73.450559D8.IP] has quit IRC: Client exited [09:24:16] humph [chatzilla@21100716.6DD7AF20.1139E686.IP] has joined #developers [09:24:18] gaoming: the COM error codes match the XPCOM error code values [09:24:28] there is an NS_ERROR_UNEXPECTED [09:25:00] gaoming: are you returning that from a cross platform method? [09:25:15] ok. thanks aaronlev & shaver [09:25:27] i suppose we shouldn't count on those error codes being the same, but they are [09:26:49] aaronlev: I am referencing some codes in other palace after nsCOMPtr element = (do_QueryInterface(mDOMNode)); [09:27:29] evan [evan@FE76BF3D.F0CE8D06.B0A6F311.IP] is now known as evan_away [09:27:30] you have an extra set of ( ) there [09:27:41] harmess [09:27:43] harmless [09:27:46] yes [09:28:01] just telliing him before he does it 20 tijmes and has to undo it [09:28:06] nsCOMPtr element = do_QueryInterface(mDOMNode); [09:28:07] or [09:28:11] nsCOMPtr element(do_QueryInterface(mDOMNode)); [09:28:48] anyway, i don't see a return code involved there at all [09:29:22] we have [09:29:22] if (!mDOMNode) { [09:29:22] return NS_ERROR_FAILURE; // Node already shut down [09:29:22] } [09:29:25] so does if(!element) { return NS_ERROR_UNEXPECTED;} still necessary? [09:29:45] well, it might not be an element if it was a text node [09:29:49] or a document node [09:29:51] etc. [09:29:54] not all nodes are elements [09:30:08] but that method presumably assumes there will be an element for the node [09:30:27] if mDOMNode is not an element then something strange happened [09:30:45] one might assert if they're sure it will never happen :) [09:30:52] but that will only catch it in debug builds [09:30:58] or: [09:31:11] NS_ENSURE_TRUE(element, NS_ERROR_UNEXPECTED); [09:31:17] which will print an error on the console in debug mode [09:31:25] and does the test both in debug and release [09:31:44] i'd lean toward using NS_ENSURE_TRUE [09:32:04] ok [09:32:10] I wish we had NS_ENSURE_EXISTS (ptr) instead. [09:32:18] that returned some default return code for such situations [09:32:50] hwaara: [09:33:02] how about [09:33:15] nsCOMPtr element = ensureQueryInterface(mDOMNode); [09:33:22] which returns if it fails [09:33:48] you mean ensureQueryInterface would be a macro? [09:34:03] right, so we couldn't do it exactly like that [09:34:12] ? [09:34:23] NS_ENSURE_QI(mDOMNode, element); [09:34:31] ugh [09:34:33] hehe [09:34:40] go to your room [09:34:47] shaver: you're just used to seeing tons of extra lines of code by now [09:35:01] has anyone else seen odd hanging behavior on this morning's bonecho nightlies [09:35:05] i know you've seen better with less blaoted lines of codes [09:35:17] hiding that crap in macros isn't the right solution [09:35:18] when the "new tab that's off the screen" icon is highlighted? [09:35:18] our error checking sucks anyway [09:35:19] Unicorn11 [chatzilla@2570B721.28672701.79D15048.IP] has joined #developers [09:35:24] IanN [IanN@696B8DF2.94C64E99.A895405E.IP] has joined #developers [09:35:32] not like anyone ever tests out of memory conidtions do we? [09:35:37] many lines of code is almost an inherent quality of xpcom code :) [09:35:45] a lot of code does [09:35:57] but standard C++ says that new never returns NULL [09:35:58] no i mean QA type testing [09:36:04] Cozby_ [chatzilla@BCB888C4.33EE9F8A.1139E686.IP] has joined #developers [09:36:09] humph [chatzilla@21100716.6DD7AF20.1139E686.IP] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [09:36:10] the JS test suite has OOM and OOS cases [09:36:17] humph [chatzilla@21100716.6DD7AF20.1139E686.IP] has joined #developers [09:36:17] cool [09:36:22] preed [preed@421D0CD7.639FE11E.A1CCF04.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [09:36:26] does the a11y test suite? [09:36:27] :) [09:36:31] and we have a mchine with virtual memory turned off to test that? [09:36:34] no we've never tested it [09:36:45] you don't need virtual memory turned off [09:36:47] i mean we check for it [09:36:48] Cozby [chatzilla@BCB888C4.33EE9F8A.1139E686.IP] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [09:36:53] but we've never done a torture test [09:37:00] Cozby_ [chatzilla@BCB888C4.33EE9F8A.1139E686.IP] is now known as Cozby [09:37:03] we probably need to sweep through all of the a11y code with an sr= some time [09:37:05] you just need to use a lot, or (better) add an error-injecting malloc [09:37:06] an architectural review [09:37:08] Ryan|work [rflint@467D0239.371BFD8A.93BBE11C.IP] has joined #developers [09:37:13] you're killing me, aaron [09:37:21] bline [chatzilla@moz-26006831.demon.nl] has joined #developers [09:37:27] shaver: what did i say? [09:37:34] preed [preed@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] has joined #developers [09:37:50] it's a good thing that we should do a thorough review of it [09:37:54] it doesn't mean i think our code is bad [09:38:08] we get less attn than other areas [09:38:16] like dom and layout [09:38:18] test suites help a ton [09:38:36] in part because code that's easy to test is usually code that's easier to maintain and analyze [09:38:36] we have 3 official fuill time QA's who work with test suites [09:38:41] but they have a lot to test [09:38:47] should get those into the automation rotation [09:38:54] many platforms, focus an key nav, many assistive technolgies, xul, html and dhtml [09:39:04] shaver: that's where LDTP is going to come in [09:39:23] 4 different accessibility APIs, essentially [09:39:37] xpcom (nsIACcessible), MSAA, ATK and soon UA on Mac [09:39:38] or one set of internal APIs unit tested [09:39:41] xforms too [09:39:50] shaver: yeah but bugs occur in the platform layers too [09:39:53] as a way to preserve the internal interactions and specific behaviours [09:39:54] sure [09:39:57] because those apis are different on all the platforms [09:40:03] I understand that [09:40:48] and sometimes the bugs are in the AT's [09:40:59] we fund or help co-develope the assistive technologies [09:41:00] yes, I understand that there will be bugs elsewhere [09:41:04] so we drive bug testing with those [09:41:10] Unicorn11 [chatzilla@2570B721.28672701.79D15048.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814] [09:41:17] I'm saying that I think there is significant value in having unit tests, to detect and help isolate bugs [09:41:31] we've published some [09:41:45] http://www.mozilla.org/access/qa/testcases [09:41:50] roxlu [chatzilla@E075BA93.4C44192F.D9A96A0E.IP] has joined #developers [09:41:55] unit tests? [09:42:07] HI all! I installed firefox 2 beta, but where can I set the default language? [09:42:09] those all look like integration or functional tests [09:42:20] anyway [09:42:24] I gotta eat and go to a meeting [09:42:26] Unicorn11 [chatzilla@2570B721.28672701.79D15048.IP] has joined #developers [09:42:38] if you have unit tests, you should talk to davel about what you need to do to get them running in a harness and automated [09:42:48] sounds good, we'll get there [09:43:21] unit tests == api testing correct? [09:43:30] based on what the code is supposed to do -- testing code paths [09:43:34] what post does the client use to connect to moznet [09:43:35] ? [09:43:46] sheesh, vmware.com leaks like crazy [09:43:49] it's testing behaviour of small components in isolation [09:44:12] gavin_ [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [09:44:14] i think sun might have that, i'll ask tim miao [09:44:35] roxlu [chatzilla@E075BA93.4C44192F.D9A96A0E.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox 2.0b1/2006071020] [09:44:54] dsarnipalli used to have some [09:46:30] bsmedberg: ping [09:46:35] IanN: pong [09:47:10] bsmedberg: wrt bug 255834 - are you talking about having a nsToolkitFeedsModule.cpp type file under toolkit/components/feeds/src? [09:47:38] IanN: you could, or you could just put the module stuff in the existing .cpp files [09:47:38] Unicorn11 [chatzilla@2570B721.28672701.79D15048.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814] [09:47:45] ajschult [andrew@moz-533834DD.bflony.east.verizon.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [SeaMonkey 1.5a/2006081608] [09:48:24] IanN: see http://bonsai.mozilla.org/cvsview2.cgi?diff_mode=context&whitespace_mode=show&file=nsAutoComplete.cpp&branch=&root=/cvsroot&subdir=mozilla/xpfe/components/autocomplete/src&command=DIFF_FRAMESET&rev1=1.10&rev2=1.11 [09:48:40] (and bug 263042) [09:48:57] shaver: so any thoughts about that Linux things? [09:48:57] dmose [dmose@moz-5BD04EDD.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [09:49:02] should I just submit Windows and Mac for now? [09:49:18] <@bz_sleep> so is branch still open? [09:49:20] I'm going to need to talk to bsmedberg [09:49:22] <@bz_sleep> tinderbox says it is.... [09:49:35] <@bz_sleep> particularly for security and crash fixes approved for 1.8.1 late last night? [09:49:41] bsmedberg looks around [09:49:44] shaver: I need to go in an hour or so :-( [09:49:52] bsmedberg: nsScriptableUnescapeHTML.cpp sounds like a strange name for the file though :-) [09:50:06] gavin_ [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #developers [09:50:08] bz_sleep decides to trust tinderbox [09:50:12] I have a meeting that starts in 10 mins [09:50:17] IanN: uh... what? [09:50:19] bz_sleep: /msg beltzner, he'll know [09:50:25] and he's around [09:50:39] or ask in #bonecho, if you haven't (I'm not in there right now) [09:51:06] bsmedberg: that's the name of the only cpp file in toolkit/components/feeds/src unless I've misunderstood [09:51:07] piratepenguin [declan@CD47771D.4B7B3F0A.81E00CBF.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [09:51:07] piratepengui1 [declan@1C3C5E51.14B0FF73.9D79F7D7.IP] has joined #developers [09:51:12] unicorn11 [unicorn11@2570B721.28672701.79D15048.IP] has joined #developers [09:51:44] shaver: okay, I guess I'll have to wait til tomorrow to submit [09:51:53] you can submit win/mac now [09:51:53] shaver: I await further orders, sir [09:51:59] IanN: well, the file's already named that... [09:52:05] ping morgamic to make sure there aren't tricks there, or ask in #amo [09:52:08] ok I'll do that [09:52:08] but that should work [09:52:19] doron did that for xforms, too [09:52:20] lemme try it and see what breaks [09:52:25] HI [09:52:38] yeah doron and I are the only freaks with huge binary extensions [09:52:41] bz_sleep [bzbarsky@moz-6157A916.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] is now known as bz_away [09:52:46] I was able to build FireFox successfully [09:52:53] hmm, that sounded dirty ;-) [09:53:16] but when i execute the firefox in the dist\bin folder [09:53:22] it opens a dos window [09:53:22] plasticmillion: what's the problem? [09:53:28] if you and xforms are the only ones doing something, you know you're on the right path! [09:53:35] plasticmillion: it's only dirty if you mention goats too [09:53:49] heh [09:54:00] shaver is just cranky because of AMO :) [09:54:06] gaoming [chatzilla@64D3723C.770FC355.6439CC76.IP] is now known as comple_away [09:54:10] which registers till nsNaticeComponentLoader and then crashes [09:54:17] comple_away [chatzilla@64D3723C.770FC355.6439CC76.IP] is now known as gaoming [09:54:28] ac_add_options --disable-accessibility [09:54:28] ac_add_options --enable-debug [09:54:28] ac_add_options --disable-optimize [09:54:28] ac_add_options --disable-activex [09:54:35] bot will kick ya [09:54:40] these are the options for the build [09:54:41] gaoming [chatzilla@64D3723C.770FC355.6439CC76.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814] [09:54:56] mozconfig [09:55:19] any idea why this is not loading any further? [09:55:44] fresh pull of what branch? [09:57:27] doron: do I have to do something special to submit my Win and Mac version to AMO? [09:57:34] initially it asks for a single XPI [09:59:11] bsmedberg: we can't link statically because our extension has 23 separate shared libraries [09:59:35] bsmedberg: maybe we should combine everything into one big mother-of-all-shared-libraries and link statically to libstdc++? [10:00:02] plasticmillion: have you measured the cost? [10:00:12] aaronlev: any places that don't will probably be found soon enough [10:00:20] bsmedberg: cost? in what sense? [10:00:26] you mean the cost of linking them all statically? [10:00:29] yes [10:00:41] plasticmillion checks with Linux guy [10:02:31] I love developers [10:02:39] "plasticmillion: have we measure the cost?" [10:02:43] "Linux guy: yes" [10:02:43] mixedpuppy [mixedpuppy@moz-1FCC0032.activestate.com] has joined #developers [10:03:07] plasticmillion eyes doron [10:03:13] mixedpuppy [mixedpuppy@moz-1FCC0032.activestate.com] has quit IRC: Quit: mixedpuppy [10:03:30] timeless: I'm lost -- what was that last comment about again? [10:03:42] oom, I bet [10:05:12] yes [10:05:20] the last time I read the discussion about that, gtk and other fundamental things we depend on can't handle oom, so how can we do anything about it? [10:05:25] aaronlev: for kicks, i killed a samsung q1 on friday (blue screen, oom) [10:05:32] it was fast and painless [10:05:34] doron: i am using the firefox 1.5.0.6 source that i downloaded from mozilla [10:05:41] and it's not my job, but there are neighbors who do that for a living [10:06:01] unicorn11: did you build --enable-debug or --enable-debugger-info-modules [10:06:10] yep [10:06:10] if not, go setup another objdir w/ one or the other [10:06:16] oh good [10:06:22] timeless: your neighbors are almost as weird as mine [10:06:24] so attach a debugger (windbg, devenv, whatever) [10:06:52] Ok [10:06:56] bsmedberg: I guess we never actually tried it :/ [10:07:16] what exactly do we have to add to the Makefile so it links with the static version and not the shared library? [10:07:50] is there an example somewhere? [10:07:50] plasticmillion: configure with CC=/path/to/installed-custom-gcc/bin/gcc CXX=/path/to/installed-custom-gcc/bin/g++ [10:07:56] Enn [enn@moz-F0E247D9.eicat.ca] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.72 [SeaMonkey 1.0/2006013012] [10:08:23] plasticmillion: when you submit, be sure to choose the corresponding OS in the dropdown [10:08:23] plasticmillion: my procedure for creating the linux reference platform is probably a useful read [10:08:30] bsmedberg: sorry, I'm kinda slow today... you mean configure Mozilla with those options? [10:08:48] bsmedberg: plasticmillion's going to want to have a single dll before he tries statically linking, right? [10:08:56] timeless: I don't think that's necessary, no [10:08:59] timeless: that's what we're trying to establish [10:09:03] also if i have a window of firefox (the version that i have installed not build)open then the build version opens without an issue [10:09:18] unicorn11: that's not opening [10:09:22] it's talking to the other firefox [10:09:25] plasticmillion, yes, configure whatever mozilla ends up building your extension components [10:09:27] and the other firefox opens the window [10:09:32] Mook [mook@moz-62E4046C.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit IRC: Quit: sleep [10:09:38] Ho Ok [10:10:09] so um, is the 1.8 branch open for approved checkins? Shedule says it frooze last night, yet bz just checked in [10:10:10] so get your debugger going [10:10:18] froozen even [10:10:24] doron: bz asked, check your scrollback [10:10:26] Pike [Axel_Hecht@moz-E0C33CEC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #developers [10:10:27] and it's frozen [10:10:32] jhpedemonte [jhpedemont@moz-6E4EB9A1.austin.ibm.com] has joined #developers [10:12:04] umm [10:12:21] bz_sleep Branch is still open, right? Per tinderbox? [10:12:21] schrep yes [10:12:42] CVS ... so slow [10:12:59] bsmedberg: thanks [10:13:17] mvl [michiel@moz-2F035FEA.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #developers [10:13:50] bsmedberg: thanks, we'll give it a whirl [10:14:33] plasticmillion: for xforms I just submit 3 different xpis [10:14:38] timeless: http://pastebin.ca/136232 thats where the exe loads till and stops [10:15:06] doron: as in three different, totally separate submissions? [10:15:07] unicorn11: wait, you said crashed earlier [10:15:11] are you not really crashing? [10:15:12] plasticmillion: right [10:15:13] or you can do multiple submissions for one extension? [10:15:19] hmmm, ok [10:15:25] first time it loads till here and stops [10:15:35] then if i click it it crashes [10:15:42] plasticmillion: you can submit 3 different xpis with the same version but with a different target OS [10:15:52] then after that it keeps crashing [10:16:01] doron: got it, thanks [10:16:11] plasticmillion: the only issue is that some reviewers see three xpis with the same version and then mark 2 as obselete, so you have to shout a bit [10:16:30] doron: I shout very loudly, that shouldn't be a problem :-) [10:16:32] comes till this point and jsut closes the window [10:16:33] especially when cornered [10:16:53] gaoming [chatzilla@64D3723C.770FC355.6439CC76.IP] has joined #developers [10:17:02] okay, here goes nothing [10:17:07] plasticmillion takes a deep breath [10:17:17] plasticmillion: XForms already went through the pains and managed to convice the AMO people to fix the problems we encountered, so it should work fine for you [10:18:17] doron: better you than me my friend, better you than me... ;-) [10:19:11] mcsmurf [chatzilla@moz-2B507B46.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #developers [10:19:29] timr [timr@moz-755A224F.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #developers [10:21:25] dria [dria@moz-B7FD1F7E.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [10:22:12] dria [dria@moz-B7FD1F7E.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #developers [10:22:15] bsmedberg: so we should use GCC3 or 4? [10:22:39] plasticmillion: 3.2.x or 3.4.x should be fine [10:22:43] or 4.0.x [10:22:50] I don't think it makes any difference at all [10:22:56] older is of course vaguely "safer" [10:23:19] CTho|flying [Chris@moz-15A5CD54.austin.res.rr.com] is now known as CTho|SV [10:23:26] ok [10:24:15] rebron [chatzilla@moz-67C48ED1.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #developers [10:24:44] glazou waves at rebron and says good evening to all, see you tomorrow [10:25:46] glazou [daniel@moz-204094DD.disruptive-innovations.fr] has quit IRC: Quit: going ohm [10:26:29] brendan [brendaneic@moz-42090664.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #developers [10:26:29] ChanServ [services@localhost.net] has set mode +o brendan [10:29:22] petea [petea@moz-ECB0F011.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com] has quit IRC: Quit: petea [10:32:58] bsmedberg, you're working on the orange? [10:33:57] ah [10:33:59] Error: Gecko:MinVersion not specified in application.ini [10:34:00] ok [10:36:10] bienvenu_ [DavidBienv@moz-DA017C7B.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #developers [10:36:22] yes, working on it [10:37:09] db48x sighs [10:37:13] piratepengui1 [declan@1C3C5E51.14B0FF73.9D79F7D7.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [10:37:19] I've completely forgotten what I was doing [10:38:12] timeless: any idea why this is happening [10:38:30] unicorn11: you don't have something happening [10:38:34] I've entered rooms and forgotten where I was going before, but never have I found myself looking at an editor with no clue as to what I was working on [10:38:37] set NSPR_LOG_MODULES=all:5 [10:38:42] set NSPR_LOG_FILE=WinDebug [10:38:47] install debugview [10:38:48] run it [10:38:51] run firefox [10:39:54] Ok [10:40:15] db48x, if you're lucky, your editor has a history ;) [10:40:44] yea [10:40:58] I think I was supposed to be testing these modifications I made [10:44:25] oh [10:44:28] db48x realizes [11:03:05] hrm [11:03:08] db48x pokes the net ### Log session terminated at Thu Aug 17 11:03:19 2006 ### ### Log session started at Thu Aug 17 11:03:33 2006 ### [11:03:33] db48x [db48x@moz-27FE33D2.sub-70-196-151.myvzw.com] has joined #developers [11:03:33] Channel topic is: Use the new pastebin at http://pastebin.mozilla.org || http://landfill.mozilla.org/mxr-test || Crop circle complete || http://wiki.mozilla.org/DOM:Web_Forms_2.0 for Gecko design and approach - please read and offer feedback | I think we are god for now [11:03:33] Topic was set by mconnor!*@* on Thu Aug 17 02:38:47 2006 [11:03:40] sand.mozilla.org [*@*] has set channel mode +snr [11:03:40] Channel was created at Thu Aug 10 23:24:33 2006 [11:03:43] Channel synchronized in 10.113 seconds [11:04:45] stephank_ [stephank@moz-E21AAFA9.net] has joined #developers [11:06:04] Uri [chatzilla@moz-C1CC4F71.dynamic.barak-online.net] has joined #developers [11:06:18] gavin [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #developers [11:06:33] stephank [stephank@moz-EC1310D8.speed.planet.nl] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [11:06:36] stephank_ [stephank@moz-E21AAFA9.net] is now known as stephank [11:06:51] gavin: i'm looking for someone who can write some trivial xmlhttprequest testcases [11:10:23] RyanVM [RyanVM@4E6B2F68.4813DAFD.13051DE2.IP] has joined #developers [11:11:43] timeless: ping, again [11:11:50] what's up with the firebug issue? [11:12:15] yes 0.4 [11:13:39] stephank [stephank@moz-E21AAFA9.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [11:14:00] timeless: got steps to reproduce? [11:14:12] kreeger [nickkreege@78FD1A3B.1C705F59.D2415654.IP] has joined #developers [11:14:17] i'm playing w/ live.com [11:14:24] searching for: not working [11:14:25] does anyone know if there is any doc for embedding xulrunner yet? [11:14:26] using trunk [11:14:37] kreeger: afaik each platform is different [11:14:44] are you embedding on beos? [11:14:48] mac os [11:14:59] timeless: there are XP embedding APIs [11:15:12] XRE_InitEmbedding and whatnot [11:15:13] bsmedberg: most platforms of interest have their own styles [11:15:23] presumably on osx he wants CocoaEmbed [11:15:34] whereas unix zealots want gtkmozembed [11:15:46] and windows people seem to want activex control [11:16:25] Cartman [chatzilla@moz-6E4EB9A1.austin.ibm.com] has joined #developers [11:16:45] woohoo [11:16:48] firefox crashed [11:17:53] unicorn11 [unicorn11@2570B721.28672701.79D15048.IP] has joined #developers [11:18:01] Hi back [11:18:11] timeless: machine had to be restarted [11:20:09] davel [davel@moz-4F4E281A.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #developers [11:20:26] making libxul seems to take a while [11:21:33] hrm, can I trust TB branch builds to not eat all my mail? [11:21:47] timeless: [3580] 0[3f4280]: nsComponentManager: CreateInstanceByContractID(@mozilla.org/intl/stringbundle/text-override;1) FAILED the only place where it is failing [11:22:01] that's not present in normal builds [11:22:03] you can ignore it [11:22:04] bsmedberg - haven't heard of any problems. [11:22:18] bsmedberg: you've been bitten once before [11:22:20] don't do it! [11:22:28] bsmedberg backs up and upgrades [11:22:28] :) [11:23:31] timeless: what line is that? [11:23:38] chrome://firebug/content/firebug.js 951, that is [11:23:41] you'll have to wait [11:23:47] I can wait. [11:24:18] spy.onreadystatechange.handleEvent() [11:24:37] given that handleEvent usually takes at least one arg... [11:24:37] alice-afk [alice@moz-FA61D0F3.zabbo.net] is now known as alice [11:24:52] timr [timr@moz-1BCEDF96.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net] is now known as timr_concall [11:25:21] 53 interface nsIDOMEventListener : nsISupports [11:25:24] 64 void handleEvent(in nsIDOMEvent event); [11:25:26] timeless: ta. [11:26:18] mwu [mikew@moz-A8CDE328.office.mozilla.org] has joined #developers [11:26:30] mw22_away [chatzilla@74AB5FE.5A222911.78A397D7.IP] has joined #developers [11:27:17] bsmedberg: would it be best for me to add build as a LOCAL_INCLUDE to feeds/src or just add the relevant lines from nsToolkitCompsCID.h into a feeds/src file? [11:27:53] IanN: REQUIRES += toolkitcomps [11:28:43] bsmedberg: how do I get the nsToolkitCompsCID.h into dist/include/toolkitcomps then? [11:28:54] IanN: it's not there already? [11:29:06] bsmedberg: no [11:29:11] oh, for suite [11:29:17] or whatever it is that you're building [11:29:21] pamg [pamg@moz-CD91E596.google.com] has joined #developers [11:29:41] I guess LOCAL_INCLUDES will work as a hack [11:30:41] bsmedberg: i'd like to try and do it unhacky if possible [11:31:02] dude, you're trying to make non-suiterunner seamonkey use toolkit [11:31:08] you're in hack land, learn to love the bomb [11:31:27] heh [11:32:32] doron: this didn't work [11:32:37] now i get an error dialog from the js [11:32:54] iann: why are you referencing a CID file? [11:34:04] timeless: to get the correct CID and CONTRACTID for building the feeds service in toolkit [11:35:09] toolkitcompscid doesn't have CIDs, it has contractids, I hope [11:35:35] bsmedberg: unfortunately [11:35:39] most of our cid files seem to have both [11:35:40] stephank_ [stephank@moz-E21AAFA9.net] has joined #developers [11:35:42] stephank_ [stephank@moz-E21AAFA9.net] is now known as stephank [11:35:44] and they're horribly misnamed [11:35:51] since you'd expect a cid file to have *cid*s [11:35:56] (and to be module private!) [11:36:31] laurentj [laurentj@2D8FB7E9.FB8B17DB.34E6C24D.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814] [11:36:48] i blame whoever invented CID [11:36:59] it looks too much like a short notation of CONTRACTID [11:37:09] bsmedberg notes that MS uses CIDs and contracts differently than XPCOM does [11:37:13] um [11:37:17] CIDs are a standard [11:37:26] actaully, i still have problems finding out the difference [11:37:28] we're the idiots who replaced ProgID w/ ContractID [11:37:34] in order to confuse eveyrone w/ CIDs [11:37:59] then i blame whoever came up with that [11:38:25] ray whitmer [11:38:53] unfortunately, the theoretical name contractid is better than progid [11:38:57] but we fail to use it properly [11:39:03] and it's way too easily confusd w/ cid [11:39:20] timeless returns to worrying about xmlhttprequest [11:39:36] when i finish, i'll try to post my other patch to clean up some other mess [11:39:36] josh [josh@moz-3628CCAA.mn.res.rr.com] has joined #developers [11:40:15] what does cid really stand for? [11:40:22] classid [11:40:25] IanN [IanN@696B8DF2.94C64E99.A895405E.IP] is now known as IanN|Away [11:40:28] that's what I thought [11:41:29] kiko [kiko@moz-21AE8E0E.dsl.telesp.net.br] is now known as kiko-fud [11:42:08] philor [ringnalda@moz-8D23E90A.eug.or.uspops.net] has quit IRC: Quit: philor [11:42:59] db48x wonders why the VM Tools installer says it has to 'restart your system' [11:43:10] it'd be nicer if it said it had to restart the VM [11:43:19] yes [11:45:58] ss [ss@moz-EE205926.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] is now known as ss|work [11:45:59] raj [raj@moz-B08DF7D8.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #developers [11:48:22] petea [petea@moz-B23F21FD.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #developers [11:50:49] sdwilsh|mac [chatzilla@moz-DCFDE60C.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #developers [11:51:49] gavin [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [11:52:12] Cartman [chatzilla@moz-6E4EB9A1.austin.ibm.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.67+ [SeaMonkey 1.0.4/2006072904] [11:52:36] Cartman [chatzilla@moz-6E4EB9A1.austin.ibm.com] has joined #developers [11:53:07] dbaron [dbaron@moz-1559392A.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [11:54:11] sdwilsh|mac [chatzilla@moz-DCFDE60C.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814] [11:55:09] hmm.. is there a selfcontained editor.jar? [11:55:17] who is flamingice@sourmilk.net? [11:55:37] michael wu [11:55:48] he works for moco iirc [11:56:14] hrm, no [11:56:17] timeless sighs [11:56:19] yes [11:57:03] mwu is an intern [11:58:01] gavin_ [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #developers [11:58:21] for all those wondering about the branch ... schrep posted to devnews [11:58:38] but the story is that the branch is closed to everything except http://tinyurl.com/g6qul [11:58:47] fyi, fwiw, etc. [11:59:25] piratepenguin [declan@DC5C981C.D1FBEAD9.9D79F7D7.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [11:59:32] beltzner: how about putting it into the topic? [11:59:38] and maybe, is it on the tinderboxes? [12:00:01] sheppy [sheppy@moz-EEBE1278.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] is now known as sheppy-afk [12:00:01] I'll go put it on the tinderbox [12:00:07] pamg [pamg@moz-CD91E596.google.com] has quit IRC: Quit: pamg [12:00:07] timeless: I fear this page's topic [12:00:15] but it's in the #bonecho topic [12:00:27] pamg [pamg@moz-CD91E596.google.com] has joined #developers [12:00:53] does the tinderbox say to look in #bonecho? [12:01:24] the trunk one? [12:01:30] http://tinderbox.mozilla.org/showbuilds.cgi?tree=Mozilla1.8 [12:01:32] no, it says "The Firefox 2 tinderboxes are here" [12:01:34] RyanVM [RyanVM@4E6B2F68.4813DAFD.13051DE2.IP] has left #developers [12:01:34] or i dunno [12:01:47] brendan [brendaneic@moz-42090664.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #developers [12:01:47] ChanServ [services@localhost.net] has set mode +o brendan [12:01:52] i can't even find a link to firefox 2 tinderboxes [12:02:09] those *are* the firefox2 tinderboxes [12:02:17] it's the "Firefox" page that points to the firefox2 ones [12:02:39] well err [12:02:46] the seamonkey page points to the 1.8 tinderbox too [12:03:09] the 1.8 tinderbox doesn't actually say, "hi, i'm firefox 2, check #bonecho" [12:03:37] at the very least, if #bonecho is important to the 1.8 tinderbox, it should be listed in the top stuff [12:03:50] seamonkey's tinderbox clearly lists #developers [12:04:17] jhughes [jhughes@moz-CD91E596.google.com] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [12:04:22] rhelmer-afk [robert@43CDFC52.3158155A.4D846E27.IP] is now known as rhelmer [12:05:34] timeless: what's the bug alias for the tinderbox password? [12:06:20] that's a shaver question, it takes me longer to find than shaver or gavin :( [12:06:27] jhughes [jhughes@moz-CD91E596.google.com] has joined #developers [12:06:38] sheriffpass [12:06:41] ManoGone [chatzilla@moz-539F5CD2.bb.netvision.net.il] is now known as Mano [12:07:25] thx [12:07:49] JasnaPaka [jasnapaka@A4A24EA4.ED0FA71B.1A5CC7E5.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Kdo zna, vi. 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[12:20:53] does anyone have the software to create .ico files? [12:21:01] robcee [rcampbell@moz-B7FD1F7E.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] is now known as robc_afk [12:21:05] (256 colors or better) [12:21:22] borland resource workshop does :) [12:21:22] davel [davel@moz-4F4E281A.dsl.static.sonic.net] is now known as davel_afk [12:21:27] gimp can do it as well [12:21:32] devenv should handle 256c [12:21:33] timeless: does it? vc8 only does 16 colors. [12:21:45] vc8 can actually iirc [12:21:47] dria [dria@moz-B7FD1F7E.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] is now known as dria-afk [12:21:51] nope [12:21:52] it just won't let you *make* ones [12:22:00] iirc if you open an existing iicon of that res [12:22:02] you can abuse it :) [12:22:12] although, i last tried w/ vc71 [12:23:32] hrm, i don't think express edition can do anything :) [12:23:36] Pike heads out to dinner [12:24:03] bsmedberg [bsmedberg@moz-FBF198A7.jst.pa.atlanticbb.net] is now known as bsmedberg-lunch [12:24:03] sayrer [chatzilla@moz-D9DB9F78.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #developers [12:24:18] anyone here know necko? [12:24:27] specifically the NSS stuff? [12:24:32] heh [12:24:35] that's a tall order, why? [12:24:38] specifically to help with bug 340359? [12:24:50] that's better :) [12:24:59] kaie promised me he was going to look at it [12:25:35] I will look at this today, but I appreciate help [12:25:36] is the url supposed to work as a testcase? [12:25:45] Pike [Axel_Hecht@moz-E0C33CEC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit IRC: Quit: real life [12:26:15] is there a way to find out what might cause xulrunner to consume 100% cpu? [12:26:15] kiko-fud [kiko@moz-21AE8E0E.dsl.telesp.net.br] is now known as kiko [12:26:43] beltzner: so [12:26:46] it sounds like the server is broken [12:26:49] timeless: testcase in the bug [12:26:50] the very same XUL code works in seamonkey without raising the cpu in any obvious way... [12:27:08] beltzner: i clicked on the url link [12:27:08] https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=194715 <-- testcase, doesn't crash, just takes a looooooong time [12:27:11] and i got a prtty error [12:27:12] nothing else [12:27:23] timeless waits [12:27:38] of course... [12:27:49] our psm dialogs don't tell me i'm using ssl3 or tls [12:27:53] or that the server is broken [12:27:59] jez [user@moz-5B362154.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #developers [12:28:01] timeless makes a note to complain somewhere [12:28:09] timeless: works in FF1.5 and Safari [12:28:16] kaie: let us know how we can help [12:28:19] sayrer: we changed our behavior iirc [12:28:21] Who wrote designMode :( [12:28:22] to defaulting to using tls [12:28:25] They make me sad [12:28:25] instead of ssl3 [12:28:30] How do I stop receiving e-mails for bugs I'm CCed to when 'BugsThisDependsOn' gets changed? [12:28:35] pkasting: the people who wrote [12:28:35] pkasting: check LXR? :) [12:28:37] jez: you don't [12:28:45] pkasting: ask bonsai [12:28:45] what? [12:28:46] jez: you email timeless and get him to fix bugzilla [12:28:52] oh, these are ssl3 I think, unless tls uses the ssl3_* functions too [12:29:01] I just wanted a username that I could feel angry at [12:29:20] pkasting: bonsai's your best friend [12:29:21] i got about 30 emails today which was annoying, yet i do want to be CCed so it shows up in my searches [12:29:23] i'll walk you through it if you buy me dinner [12:29:29] I don't care enough to look at bonsai :) [12:29:42] jez: " [12:29:44] Any field not mentioned above changes [12:29:44] " [12:29:50] I'm just tired of having a very simple change to make spellchecking work right start causing all kinds of crazy topsrashes in designMode! [12:29:51] what part of that is ambiguous? [12:29:53] tocrashes* [12:29:57] topcrashes* [12:29:59] Dammit [12:30:17] pkasting: that's not really entirely design mode's fault [12:30:22] it was built on flaky editor code [12:30:27] built w/o a poor understanding of gecko [12:30:27] OK, I also blame the people who wrote editor [12:30:38] and designmode just exposed more of it to js [12:30:58] Also I blame the people who wrote Gecko while I'm at it! [12:30:58] it's not entirely their fault either, they were in a rush and had to get a product shipped [12:30:58] timeless: do you know which fields that setting covers? [12:31:00] there you go :) [12:31:07] jez: it says "any" [12:31:13] one would think it would well.... [12:31:18] cover what it says [12:31:26] if it's lying, let me know, i'll whack someone for you [12:31:38] im just wondering if i would miss anything vaguely important if i unchecked that [12:31:51] you'll miss bugs changing product :) [12:32:05] or changing assignee [12:32:08] or qa [12:32:12] or status whiteboard [12:32:35] or flags [12:32:45] or components [12:33:07] timeless wonders what "some attachment data changes" [12:33:10] means [12:33:18] timeless thinks it means "please file a bug, we're drunk" [12:34:12] yeah, vc8 icon editor blows. [12:34:17] coop [coop@moz-ED3265B4.sympatico.ca] is now known as coop_away [12:34:21] wondering if I should just buy one of these shareware ones. [12:34:27] hmm [12:34:30] like http://www.iconedit2.com/ or something [12:34:33] so i either see flags and loads of crap [12:34:34] or no flags [12:34:35] sigh [12:34:47] i wish the system were a little more targetable [12:34:54] there's a bug for that [12:34:57] it'll let you run queries [12:34:59] what do you really want [12:35:07] huh? [12:35:09] firebot jez? [12:35:15] jez: jez? [12:35:32] 35 users found. [12:35:39] what's your bugmail? [12:35:41] rebron [chatzilla@moz-67C48ED1.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit IRC: Client exited [12:35:50] sheppy-afk [sheppy@moz-EEBE1278.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] is now known as sheppy [12:35:53] bugzilla@game-point.net [12:36:18] dougt [dougt@moz-C552EF89.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #developers [12:36:51] gavin_ [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [12:37:20] ok. change your settings not to use bugmail [12:37:28] why? [12:37:30] you only care about changes, right? [12:37:32] sayrer: btw, I -'d a previous approval due to a bitrotted patch [12:37:39] or do you like to actually read the changes in your mailbox? [12:37:44] lemme know when you post the new one and I'll give you an a+ again :) [12:37:47] beltzner: I saw that.. [12:37:48] beaufour [beaufour@moz-FADE66FE.ip.onderwijs.casematelecom.nl] has quit IRC: Input/output error [12:37:55] why do you do these things? [12:37:57] i like to receive change notification to my mailbox [12:38:01] ok [12:38:03] you're screwed [12:38:05] sayrer: because I'm a small and petty man? [12:38:07] heh [12:38:12] wait for someone to fix half a dozen possible bugs [12:38:17] beltzner: I figured it was something like that [12:38:22] i'd just write a mail filter if i were you [12:38:40] beltzner: is it ok for me to back out my wallpaper with no review? I think it is. [12:38:45] if it sees the two fields you don't like, and none of the more useful ones [12:38:49] i guess i'll just live without status changes [12:38:52] sayrer: yeah, go right ahead [12:38:53] and no comment, have it move the bug to a folder [12:39:17] jez: the alternative is to try playing w/ rss or whines [12:39:23] but afaik rss doesn't work well [12:39:29] feel free to try [12:39:44] maybe you can convice thunderbird's rss reader to properly deal w/ bugs :) [12:39:55] dria-afk [dria@moz-B7FD1F7E.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] is now known as dria [12:40:00] (doesn't seem likely) [12:40:45] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #developers [12:40:59] WeirdAl [chatzilla@moz-9A727803.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #developers [12:41:44] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] is now known as NeilZZZ [12:42:11] Mnyromyr [Mnyromyr@B2521176.7B0892CB.771966F7.IP] has joined #developers [12:43:03] gavin_ [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #developers [12:44:58] brendan [brendaneic@moz-42090664.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Quit: brendan [12:45:52] hmm, you can't use a switch statemtn with nsIAtom* [12:46:24] timr_ [timr@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] has joined #developers [12:46:40] Enn [chatzilla@moz-F0E247D9.eicat.ca] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [12:46:51] that sucks [12:47:00] nsIAtom *tag = content->Tag(); [12:47:03] switch (tag) { [12:47:22] case nsAccessibilityAtom::h1 : headLevel = 1; break; [12:47:23] etc. [12:47:25] doesn't work [12:47:31] doesn't compile [12:47:36] Enn [chatzilla@moz-F0E247D9.eicat.ca] has joined #developers [12:49:24] raj [raj@moz-B08DF7D8.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Quit: raj [12:50:05] markh [markh@CE406492.D6FCF138.91A8E342.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [12:50:05] orph [nobody@moz-5E06C3D1.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [12:50:18] beltzner, I've started with that bug 340359, and I'm able to reproduce, should know more soon [12:50:42] sayrer [chatzilla@moz-D9DB9F78.cable.mindspring.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [12:52:48] markp [markp@moz-15E04AEE.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [12:53:20] davel_afk [davel@moz-4F4E281A.dsl.static.sonic.net] is now known as davel [12:55:02] aaronlev: do you have a moment? [12:55:06] JasnaPaka [jasnapaka@A4A24EA4.ED0FA71B.1A5CC7E5.IP] has joined #developers [12:55:36] sure [12:55:37] dietrich [dietrich@B6C469E7.10DA35A7.E2CA354A.IP] has joined #developers [12:55:49] i don't feel like working on my bugs [12:56:11] aaronlev: I'm trying to figure out, for a11y, how I would indicate that a text input has a pattern - what sort of icon or styling to give the control. [12:56:40] (by pattern, I mean "we're going to validate by checking the value against a regular expression in the pattern attribute") [12:57:17] the only idea I've had that makes the slightest bit of sense is for a # sign after the control [12:57:22] does anyone here understand XMLHttpRequest.onreadystatechange? [12:57:22] (as an image) [12:57:28] WeirdAl: ? [12:57:44] unicorn11 [unicorn11@2570B721.28672701.79D15048.IP] has quit IRC: Client exited [12:57:46] romaxa: I have a general understanding of it, but I haven't used it myself for several months [12:58:23] sayrer [chatzilla@moz-C3B440CB.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #developers [12:58:32] WeirdAl: i think the label or description next to the control needs to explain [12:58:45] Peter6 [Peter6@2521AAD9.3852C170.3D5584FB.IP] has joined #developers [12:58:50] WeirdAl: let's say you have a UK zip code entry field [12:58:54] http://live.com bring Minefield, and a normal browser (opera, ie, bonecho, firefox1.5) of your choice [12:58:58] smaugAway [chatzilla@93F5D356.851FF927.9BAB7257.IP] is now known as smaugafk [12:59:02] and it takes letter-number-letter space number-letter-number [12:59:08] romaxa: please hold [12:59:27] trying to have some visual indication of that won't work very well, it's too complicated [12:59:42] it's better to just ask for the zip code, and possibly state what the pattern must be [12:59:50] besides it's probably going to check against a zip code database anyway [13:00:03] gavin_ [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] is now known as gavin [13:00:04] if they're smart, yeah ;) [13:00:35] i could see for a cell phone it would be useful to say when a field is numeric only [13:00:40] and that you're in a numeric data entry mode [13:00:49] romaxa wonders if anyone has back issues of live.com :( [13:01:03] WeirdAl: I think numeric only is a case where your # trick might work [13:01:09] I was thinking the tooltip for any proposed icon would indicate it was a regular expression validation, but I agree with you in what you're saying - that the page is responsible for labeling the attribute [13:01:13] but for anything more complicated than that I don't know [13:01:28] preed [preed@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] is now known as preed-inbound [13:01:35] anything automatic that would require the user to understand regexp won't work obviosuly [13:01:36] aaronlev: really, all I'm looking for is an idea for an icon we can use to indicate "Hey, this has a regexp attached to it" [13:01:52] or that something is validated at all? [13:01:55] why does it need to be a regexp [13:02:00] what if it's doing server validation? [13:02:09] the user doesn't care how it's validated, what coding technique is used [13:02:35] let me see if I can put this another way [13:02:58] what's the magic for the front-page bugzilla search to have it also search closed bugs? [13:03:20] dropdown to all [13:03:20] NeilZZZ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [13:03:38] oh that page [13:03:45] WF2 specifies a few new attributes, including pattern and required. I figured out roughly how I'd style the control if it has a required attribute. I figured out styling for invalid controls. But if it has a pattern attribute, I still don't know how to indicate that to the user. [13:03:53] sayrer goes back to something else [13:03:56] glazou [daniel@F2DF90F5.71C69A21.DF976834.IP] has joined #developers [13:04:02] I'm not saying we have to show them what the regexp is [13:04:30] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #developers [13:04:50] WeirdAl: i know, but you're going to tell the user that it's got a required pattern and it won't style it that way if it's a server-validated pattern [13:05:06] so some zip code fields which use regexp will say it [13:05:08] that's the server's problem :) [13:05:13] and then other zip code fields which use server database validation won't [13:05:14] sheeit [13:05:30] ok, just pointing out that the user will be confused by the incosinsistency [13:05:46] marcoos [marcoos@A939BEFC.1A206934.4CABC86D.IP] is now known as marcoos|away [13:05:52] stuart pokes cvs [13:05:54] aaronlev: eh, I may not have to do anything at all. WF2 says page authors should use the title attribute on the input to indicate the format of the pattern. [13:06:05] (and that indeed it does have a pattern) [13:06:08] glazou [daniel@F2DF90F5.71C69A21.DF976834.IP] is now known as glazou_dinner [13:06:16] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] is now known as NeilZZZ [13:06:43] aaronlev: let's discount the server for the moment [13:06:59] smccoy [smccoy@moz-BFB429EA.sef.marchex.com] is now known as tag [13:07:01] I agree 100% it's bad form for the server to rely on the client, and vice versa [13:07:19] ok [13:07:22] so let's leave the server out of the equation for the moment and think client user interface [13:07:41] WeirdAl: i have no immediate idea [13:07:43] i have to think about it [13:07:52] that's all I was asking you to do, think on it :) [13:07:57] ok [13:08:03] use the pink like typeahead find [13:08:29] sayrer: I'm sorta saving that for invalid controls, and it may not be a11y-friendly to have that alone (color-blindness) [13:08:37] WeirdAl emphasizes "alone" [13:08:42] right [13:08:52] WeirdAl: how is typeahead accessible? [13:08:57] it's often not friendly to alternative color themes on the desktop [13:09:02] invalid controls? [13:09:04] sayrer: I'm not talking typeahead, but rather the styling [13:09:25] WeirdAl: what do you mean by invalid controls? [13:09:38] WeirdAl sighs and points sayrer to the WF2 spec [13:09:42] WeirdAl: typeaheadfind has an invalid state [13:09:51] if you hit ctrl+f and type something not found [13:09:54] the textfield gets a red background color [13:10:16] aaronlev: yes, I know. I'm saying we can reuse the color for invalid text inputs - if we also include some sort of icon for invalid as well [13:10:26] right [13:10:39] robc_afk [rcampbell@moz-B7FD1F7E.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] is now known as robcee [13:10:39] i'm just trying to get you an sayrer on the same page [13:10:39] that reminds me, I've been meaning to ask you [13:11:10] -- is there some sort of preference or ui feature that turns on and off a11y user interface in Firefox/Thunderbird/SeaMonkey, etc? [13:11:10] I think I am now on the same page! [13:11:47] beltzner, bug 340359 look like a server gets confused by our extended SSL handshake message, and decides to stall. But Nelson will have to comment on that. I believe the details I have provided in the bug will allow him to comment quickly. [13:12:03] WeirdAl: seems fair game to use the invalid state for the pattern mismatch [13:12:23] for a mismatch, yes -- but what if there's a pattern and it matches? [13:12:28] WeirdAl: the fact that it matches a patter becomes more important when it doesn't match [13:12:31] how do we indicate to the user there's a pattern? [13:12:54] WeirdAl: it would be neat if the invalid part of what you typed was indicated [13:12:58] similar to how a spelling error is [13:13:08] so if you typed a phone number with a letter in it [13:13:14] there would be a red squiggly under the letter [13:13:18] aaronlev: that's actually included in my gecko design doc (read topic) [13:13:25] cool [13:13:26] ehh, I'm not sure I can do that ;) [13:13:53] aaronlev: regexp's don't allow for determining where a pattern mismatch happened in the text. [13:13:54] i think it could actually be done though [13:13:56] WeirdAl: do users care that there's a pattern? [13:14:19] I know I sure as hell would [13:14:19] can people ping cvs.mozilla.rog? [13:14:19] WeirdAl: but technically the regexp engine should know [13:14:35] WeirdAl: just because we can't get that info out now doesn't mean we couldn't [13:14:44] aaronlev likes creating more work for people [13:14:50] aaronlev: it's still a bit of a tall order. :( [13:15:04] WeirdAl: we're thinking high level here, don't shoot it down after 1/2 a second [13:15:05] I agree, an underline at the first point of failure would really rock [13:15:12] WeirdAl: note that XForms just adds a css pseudoclass to a "invalid" or "outofrange" input rather than do the styling directly [13:15:13] right [13:15:41] gavin [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [13:15:43] gavin [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #developers [13:15:43] cause the first thing people will ask is "can I modify the colors" [13:15:44] and it's something that I can ask crowder (who's right now working on exposing the JS regexp functionality to a public API) to think about [13:15:52] firewolfbot [firebot@moz-8BCFA482.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #developers [13:15:54] do regexp engines really know where it didn't match? [13:15:56] doron: yeah, I know. [13:15:56] WeirdAl: can you share code with our xforms impl? [13:16:08] i mean i don't want to have to make a milllion separate date pickers accessible [13:16:12] I think the regexp will tell you that it didn't match _everywhere_, if the string didn't [13:16:14] aaronlev: yes and no - in the case of pattern, I don't think so [13:16:25] X-Wolf [wolf@moz-8BCFA482.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [13:16:29] dmose [Miranda@moz-A8CDE328.office.mozilla.org] has joined #developers [13:16:41] but the WF2 guys really want to reuse your datepicker stuff [13:16:41] Wolf [wolf@moz-8BCFA482.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #developers [13:16:42] well, like date picker for example then [13:16:49] i see [13:17:13] .oO( WF2?? ) [13:17:20] shaver: it's a state machine isn't it? when it fails it's at an index [13:17:24] aaronlev: on date picker, I did file a bug for determining how XF and WF2 can share code, but no one's doing any formal analysis right now. [13:17:25] firewolfbot [firebot@moz-8BCFA482.carolina.res.rr.com] is now known as firebot [13:17:35] TheSeer: "Web Forms 2.0" [13:17:40] ah ;) [13:17:53] WeirdAl: thanks for that [13:17:56] WeirdAl: it's XBL, not too hard :) [13:17:57] aaronlev: right, but it will then advance and start looking for another match [13:18:24] if you're matching /foobar/ and you have the string "fooabc", it will end up trying to match at the end of the string [13:18:42] mento [mark@45E77367.4D5468FB.6E4B7F6D.IP] has joined #developers [13:19:11] shaver: note WF2's pattern requires we treat it as if it begins with ^ and ends with $ (it must match the whole value) [13:19:22] kreeger-lunch [nickkreege@78FD1A3B.1C705F59.D2415654.IP] is now known as kreeger [13:19:30] i don't know, but the admittedly slow engine we had in a product i worked on could have been modified to piull it off [13:19:52] aaronlev: sure, if you track longest match the whole way along, at significant space (and possibly) speed costs [13:20:02] right [13:20:06] :\_ [13:20:10] :-| [13:20:21] aaronlev: but I'm sure people would be interested in seeing that code to figure out if there are heuristics that are "good enough" [13:20:34] myk [chatzilla@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] has joined #developers [13:20:43] it's just an idea [13:21:03] doron: I'm still seeking feedback on the topic'd document [13:21:10] (ditto to shaver, aaronlev) [13:21:17] sheppy [sheppy@moz-EEBE1278.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] is now known as sheppy-lunch [13:21:54] romaxa [romaxa@5147B1D6.FCB50AFC.AB646A19.IP] has quit IRC: Client exited [13:22:07] considering WF2 will probably be asking you guys to help out, your feedback would be valuable :) [13:22:17] WeirdAl: that and the other 4-5 papers on my stack [13:22:22] hehe [13:22:24] but i appreciate being included [13:22:44] mm, so apologies for a slightly offtopic question, but I don't suppose someone could recommend a decent mp3 player? [13:23:12] well, for you, aaronlev, it's because you are our a11y guru, and when I ran into that colorblindness design flaw a few weeks ago, it really woke me up about a11y [13:23:28] we also have mark pilgrim [13:23:40] i think he'd be equally capable [13:23:52] what's he go by in irc? [13:24:01] markp [13:24:17] ok, I'll try to keep him in mind [13:24:27] preed-inbound [preed@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] is now known as preed [13:24:37] the point I'm trying to make is a11y is one of my top priorities for WF2 and anything else I'm working on. [13:24:48] not the bottom ;) [13:25:13] I think he would probably be interested [13:25:30] ssh: connect to host cvs.mozilla.org port 22: Operation timed out [13:25:33] cvs down? [13:25:48] Jesse_: yeah, kernel panic (see your mail) [13:26:10] seems to be down [13:26:11] sayrer: hm, neither word nor firebot knows markp [13:26:16] so I can't get an e-mail on him [13:26:39] pilgrim /\ gmail.com is his bugmail [13:27:11] wgianopoulos [chatzilla@moz-F5CA1EA.raytheon.com] has joined #developers [13:27:17] I usually just cc him on bugs and he pops up within a few days [13:27:19] or mark@diveintomark.org, as per 30 seconds on google [13:27:22] jez [user@moz-5B362154.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit IRC: Quit: [13:27:29] madewokherd [urk@moz-148F0076.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #developers [13:27:31] shaver: smartypants :) [13:28:08] rob_strong [rob_strong@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] has joined #developers [13:28:29] WeirdAl: ask surkov (if you haven't already) to look at it, since he got the MoFo a11y xforms grant :) [13:29:05] oh, I have a meeting right now [13:29:05] brendan [brendaneic@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] has joined #developers [13:29:05] ChanServ [services@localhost.net] has set mode +o brendan [13:29:11] gotta run [13:30:58] timeless sighs [13:31:06] i can't get microsoft script debugger to actually "work" [13:31:38] timeless: it helps to restart IE sometimes [13:32:05] doron: do i have to quit google talk? [13:32:19] just close all IEs and open it [13:32:49] it often forgets that you enabled the debugger and creating a new IE process seems to do it [13:33:05] markp [markp@moz-762FC252.nc.us.ibm.com] has joined #developers [13:34:06] ooh, it owrked! [13:34:15] gaoming [chatzilla@64D3723C.770FC355.6439CC76.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814] [13:35:29] zwnj [zwnj@A27B03AD.DA3750AA.22199703.IP] has joined #developers [13:37:35] kreeger [nickkreege@78FD1A3B.1C705F59.D2415654.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: kreeger [13:37:57] doron: can you get ie to pretty print functions? [13:37:57] kreeger [nickkreege@78FD1A3B.1C705F59.D2415654.IP] has joined #developers [13:38:06] Camino: 'MacOSX Darwin 7.9.0 boxset Depend camino' has changed state from Success to Burning. [13:38:26] timeless: hahahahahahaha [13:38:28] no [13:38:54] is it normal for mise+mscrdbg to hang? [13:40:25] timeless: if that's supposed to be msie and the script debugger.. then the answer is yes [13:40:33] i can crash it here with two clicks [13:40:51] bsmedberg-lunch [bsmedberg@moz-FBF198A7.jst.pa.atlanticbb.net] is now known as bsmedberg [13:41:07] erg. gaius is not building feeds. [13:43:20] theseer: you should get symbols for things [13:43:27] i can see i've hung in pdm [13:43:58] jscript!COleScript::DbgBreakPoint called into pdm [13:44:11] well.. i dunno what ms is doing, but on my xp-laptop i can't even start the debugger properly [13:44:20] let alone step through the code [13:44:21] and pdm called kernel32!WaitForMultipleObjects [13:44:35] every 2nd step kills it... [13:44:38] i had to quit explorer (shell) [13:44:52] yeah.. same here [13:44:52] i also quit outlook/word/googletalk for good measure [13:44:54] it's 100% buggy [13:45:16] sayrer [chatzilla@moz-C3B440CB.cable.mindspring.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [13:48:27] Pike [Axel_Hecht@2DDF35F1.7BFD1235.64A8B3F8.IP] has joined #developers [13:49:02] So, uh, is the whole "bonsai is down" thing known? [13:49:21] aaah tinderbox is down [13:49:24] ;) [13:49:25] mrbkap: down how? [13:49:39] well [13:49:42] not anymore apparently. [13:49:43] I'm browsing with bonsai right now [13:49:47] I tried twice! [13:49:52] And it refused both of my connections. [13:50:15] wfm [13:50:19] mrbkap double checks his head. [13:50:27] I also just had problems looking at tinderbox logs [13:52:21] SeaMonkey: 'Linux comet Depend release' has changed state from Burning to Success. [13:52:36] austoo [auslandr@moz-98C3E399.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com [13:52:59] mrbkap/shaver: can you think of any reason [13:53:07] ? [13:53:10] no [13:53:17] for nsIDOMEvents to be treated as false [13:53:34] when one does if (event) [13:53:37] hrm [13:54:05] mcsmurf/theseer: can you point me to something that explains how domevents "work" in ie? [13:54:05] do they not pass an event argument? [13:54:41] me and IE? me and DOM? [13:54:44] coop_away [coop@moz-ED3265B4.sympatico.ca] is now known as coop [13:54:50] mcsmurf shakes head [13:55:11] timeless: ohm.. in IE you generally have an event object automagically afaik [13:55:14] theseer: right [13:55:23] but, does that mean that they don't pass one? [13:55:30] yes [13:55:33] and does anyone here know how to contact a windows live person? [13:55:36] oh god [13:55:40] so um [13:55:48] yes, I have contacts at windows live [13:55:58] why did we try to implement XMLHttpRequest if we can't match their behavior? [13:56:00] shaveR: oh goody [13:56:06] the event handling in IE is broken by design [13:56:21] Fufie [lambada@6645D3DE.EEEF76E9.52A1A62D.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [13:56:28] self [borg@moz-6D7347A.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net] has joined #developers [13:57:26] shaver: ok, so, hrm [13:57:29] timeless frowns [13:57:46] i know that the code i see is incorrect in minefield, doesn't work in opera [13:58:01] and would work in ie per the explanation theseer mentioned [13:58:11] but, that doesn't explain why it works in ff1.5 [13:58:55] ouhm.. [13:58:59] you lost me ;/ [13:59:55] mwu: about the region.properties patch, do you need an #expand prefix for the lines with vars or does that work without? [14:00:04] http://shared.live.com/m-dMpSci6J9mtWdxcoCB8g/LiveFramework.js [14:00:07] in firefox.js, that is [14:00:11] theseer: can you load that? [14:00:18] in what browser? [14:00:26] notepad [14:00:33] :P [14:00:46] it's js! [14:00:50] i thought you would have said telnet [14:00:52] Pike: the vars in firefox.js are expanded by formatURL. that's the part of the patch dietrich is working on [14:01:21] mwu: oh, right, yeah. Sorry, I could have just known that :-/ [14:01:35] s'ok [14:01:36] iann|away that works too [14:02:01] shaver: ok, so the problem is that function doCallback(p_blnForce) [14:02:01] timeless: what do you want me to do with it? [14:02:11] theseer: verify you're getting the same content as me [14:02:16] romaxa [romaxa@B9E362E3.A93BF801.75E1F41B.IP] has joined #developers [14:02:22] bonus points for explaining why it works in ff1.5 [14:02:28] mwu, beltzner: I'm wondering if the official brand.js should be in other-licenses [14:02:45] probaly [14:02:47] mwu: in region.properties, you just want to remove those entries [14:03:08] Pike: brand.js? [14:03:23] stephend [stephend@moz-40449CC1.sbndin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #developers [14:03:26] in minefield, there's a call to something like xml.send() [14:03:27] dietrich: see Pike's comment [14:03:45] and when that triggers, we call doCallback because it's the onreadystatechange handler [14:04:03] but we pass it a domevent as we always would [14:04:12] the problem si that ie doesn't, since it never would [14:04:19] alice [alice@moz-FA61D0F3.zabbo.net] is now known as alice_afk [14:04:25] oh, mwu fixed those issues without the brand.js that dietrich had [14:04:26] reed, Pike: yeah the final patch to bug 348076 would have them removed from region.properties, with them living firefox.js instead yeah? [14:04:29] so in ie, p_blnForce is |undefined| [14:04:37] Pike: which entries are you talking about? I thought I removed all the ones that aren't being used anymore [14:04:39] but in moz, it's nsIDOMEvent(xmlhttprequest) [14:04:52] mwu: sorry, confused your patch with dietrichs [14:04:55] mm [14:05:40] sayrer [chatzilla@moz-EC288A1F.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #developers [14:06:45] marcoos|away [marcoos@A939BEFC.1A206934.4CABC86D.IP] is now known as marcoos [14:06:45] having both official and non-official branding in firefox.js should be good to go, I don't think there's any way for update to barf up on that [14:06:54] timeless: maybe i'm just to tired to think straight.. but i don't get what you want me to do :/ [14:06:57] shaver: in short, they need to change doCallback to use === true [14:07:13] theseer: do you have minefield+ff1.5? [14:07:32] i do have ff1.5 or sm1.0.2 [14:07:39] no minefield so far.. [14:07:58] opera? [14:08:17] 9.0.something i believe [14:08:22] venkman for ff/sm? [14:08:27] yes [14:08:32] 1. try loading www.live.com in opera [14:08:38] search for: not working [14:08:54] rginda [rginda@CA39FFCD.67E9D44.304D653D.IP] has joined #developers [14:09:01] in ff/sm, do the same, then open venkman [14:09:01] Can someone please suggest a site with "high" security level, for testing? [14:09:06] have venkman not debug chrome [14:09:29] pamg: bugzilla? [14:09:43] High-grade Encryption (AES-256 256 bit) [14:09:47] whatever 256 256 is [14:09:47] timeless, that shows up as low security. [14:09:57] what browser? [14:10:02] I gotta ask this, and I know it's stupid: do I need to get a= for something landing on the trunk? [14:10:10] (assuming it's got all the necessary r='s) [14:10:12] 2.0b1 [14:10:45] what os? [14:10:45] preed: no, trunk is not driver-controlled [14:10:55] timeless, hm, I take it back. It's high, just not what I expected. OK, thanks. [14:10:58] i get the same high grade 256 in minefield wXP [14:11:01] preed: you need reviews and an open tree [14:11:04] shaver: cool; thanks [14:11:07] pamg: can you explain? [14:11:21] timeless, I'm debugging the little lock icon in the urlbar. [14:11:23] or elaborate [14:11:37] ok... [14:11:44] and what did you expect? [14:11:44] timeless: okaaay.. now what? ;) [14:11:47] The lock wasn't the one I expected to see, but the attribute isset. [14:12:03] pamg: i double click the lock in the bottom corner [14:12:05] timeless: in opera i get a blank page.. more or less.. in sm1.0.2 the page seems to have loaded fine.. [14:12:14] theseer: open venkman [14:12:31] did that [14:12:45] exclude browser files is on [14:12:47] in scripts, find the script that kinda matches the filename from the url i gave you [14:13:49] got it [14:13:55] it's LiveFramework.js directly.. [14:14:33] in that tree there should be a doCallback [14:14:57] maybe a bunch of them [14:15:01] Pike [Axel_Hecht@2DDF35F1.7BFD1235.64A8B3F8.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: real life [14:15:19] say line 471? [14:15:24] found one [14:15:33] yep [14:15:34] 471 [14:15:58] there are maybe 4 or 5? [14:16:09] the one on 531 is the only interesting one [14:16:22] okay.. found it [14:16:23] Camino: 'MacOSX Darwin 7.9.0 boxset Depend camino' has changed state from Burning to Success. [14:18:31] davel [davel@moz-4F4E281A.dsl.static.sonic.net] is now known as davel_afk [14:19:13] timeless: and now? ;) [14:19:31] I'll bother repeating as I didn't see any responses - mm, so apologies for a slightly offtopic question, but I don't suppose someone could recommend a decent mp3 player? [14:19:47] hannibal: beos's mediaplayer [14:19:58] er, ok, I should be more clear [14:20:02] a portable audio/mp3 device [14:20:11] such as an iPod. [14:20:19] I like my iPod a lot [14:20:24] do you want to watch movies? [14:20:27] no. [14:20:29] or any screen? [14:20:40] how many days worth of sound do you want? [14:20:44] being able to tell what I'm playing would be nice. [14:20:53] a day sounds like too much already :) [14:21:01] assuming you mean storage space. [14:21:10] and playtime w/o charge [14:21:47] dietrich_ [dietrich@B6C469E7.10DA35A7.E2CA354A.IP] has joined #developers [14:21:51] no idea. What's reasonable? 12 hours? [14:21:55] Hannibal has no idea :) [14:22:03] I used to just have an AAA battery powered 128MB usb stick [14:22:08] that happened to play mp3 files as well [14:22:16] as that got stolen today [14:22:22] wow, :( [14:22:30] and I'm going on holiday in a few days [14:22:34] I'm looking for a replacement :) [14:22:37] i had a phone w/ a 128mb sony memory stick [14:22:45] I spent about 100 euros on it originally [14:22:47] it was replaced when i got this job [14:22:49] you know, back 2-3 years ago :) [14:22:53] timeless: hate to interrupt.. but what do you want me to look for now? ;P [14:23:11] theseer: so, how about breakpointing that function [14:23:11] dietrich [dietrich@B6C469E7.10DA35A7.E2CA354A.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [14:23:17] i did that already ;> [14:23:21] and then in the browser, search for not work again [14:23:53] okaay..? ;) [14:23:54] and? [14:24:00] does it break? [14:24:10] yep [14:24:29] a stack would be nice [14:24:50] Enn: ping [14:25:46] dietrich_ [dietrich@B6C469E7.10DA35A7.E2CA354A.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: dietrich_ [14:25:50] dietrich [dietrich@B6C469E7.10DA35A7.E2CA354A.IP] has joined #developers [14:27:34] is the new theme going to land on the trunk? [14:28:19] yes [14:28:48] eta? [14:28:57] mano [14:29:24] Enn: is http://xulplanet.com/references/elemref/ref_listitem.html#attr_disabled supposed to work [14:30:02] Enn: it doesn't really work here, plus i couldn't find anything related in listbox.xml [14:30:32] work in what way? [14:30:45] oh wow [14:30:47] ssieb_roam [ssieb@6553E9A5.EE58872D.94386ED0.IP] has quit IRC: Client exited [14:30:52] oh, no that text is wrong [14:30:55] Live emulates forEach [14:31:30] Waldo|mac, you created some htto server with necko, right? [14:31:32] Enn: i only see disabled checks on the listbox itself [14:31:34] http [14:32:02] Enn: oh... ok, is it supposed to work that way? or is it not implemented for a reason? [14:32:29] not sure what it should be no [14:32:30] Firefox-Cairo: 'WINNT 5.2 gaius Depend Reference' has changed state from Burning to Success. [14:32:46] get there, gaius [14:32:48] gandalf [e-gand@FB719925.F40EBDB0.AB2CA809.IP] has joined #developers [14:33:25] ss|work [ss@moz-EE205926.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] is now known as ss|lunch [14:34:27] poningru [poningru@moz-21E2857A.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [14:36:41] timeless: any more i can do for you? otherwise i'd head home ;) [14:37:27] poningru [poningru@moz-21E2857A.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #developers [14:37:46] go home, i'm dissassemblin gthis mess [14:37:49] thanks for your bits [14:38:03] anytime :) [14:42:22] glazou_dinner [daniel@F2DF90F5.71C69A21.DF976834.IP] is now known as glazou [14:42:24] Hixie: ping [14:42:37] <@Hixie> yo [14:43:39] Peter6 [Peter6@2521AAD9.3852C170.3D5584FB.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Chatzilla 0.9.68.5/2005053005] [14:43:50] wolfiR [stark@1A201497.5AEF2A6A.3E7AAD02.IP] has joined #developers [14:45:27] davel_afk [davel@moz-4F4E281A.dsl.static.sonic.net] is now known as davel [14:45:38] Hixie: have you seen Bert's answer about XBL in CSS ???? [14:45:41] MrMazda [fmcz@moz-39AC71E7.ij.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75.1 [SeaMonkey 1.1a/2006081509] [14:45:45] <@Hixie> not yet [14:45:50] <@Hixie> still having fun with the chairs mailing lit [14:45:52] <@Hixie> list [14:45:56] go and read it ! [14:46:02] <@Hixie> where john boyer quoted my slashdot posting (!) [14:46:09] that's a (dil)Bertism [14:46:16] <@Hixie> you should read this huge thread on web forms 2 in chairs@w3.org [14:46:16] <@Hixie> it's great [14:46:26] looking [14:46:27] <@Hixie> xforms advocates getting all uppity [14:46:36] <@Hixie> start with [14:46:37] <@Hixie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2006JulSep/0041.html [14:47:13] aww, no fun to be linking to member-only threads... :( ;) [14:47:21] no fun for you ;) [14:47:25] (and me ;) [14:47:36] Hixie: WOW [14:47:37] Sander thinks it would seriously be a worthwhile proposition to join the w3c _just_ for the entertainment value. [14:47:51] Sander, looking at the money needed...no way ;) [14:47:56] austoo [auslandr@moz-98C3E399.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #developers [14:48:04] I mean, it's more fun than cable tv, and compared to that its earns itself back in a mere few years [14:48:30] Hixie: the 1st mail from the ibm guy... wow [14:48:45] <@Hixie> his second one (his reply to steve's reply to his mail) is pretty fun too [14:48:48] NeilZZZ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [14:50:13] ooooh he's xforms cochair !!!! [14:50:17] BWAHAHAHAHA [14:50:50] gavin [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [14:50:50] <@Hixie> i love how he is like "it's not fair, you're not supporting us anymore!" [14:50:57] <@Hixie> hello, w3c supported you against us when you went to PR [14:51:01] <@Hixie> it's only fair they should support us now [14:51:13] Neil_ [neil@805FBB74.43DBE11A.6FB37ABF.IP] has joined #developers [14:51:30] <@stuart> all you w3c people are crazy [14:51:33] Hixie: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2006Aug/0111.html [14:51:37] gavin [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #developers [14:52:02] Neil_ [neil@805FBB74.43DBE11A.6FB37ABF.IP] is now known as NeilZZZ [14:52:12] doron is surprised IBM even cares about W3C anymore [14:52:46] <@dbaron> hrm, I should really finish writing this blog entry... [14:52:48] doron: and you know about it :-) [14:53:08] There currently is no good language for writing programs on the Web, [14:53:09] other than Java [14:53:13] I says pardon? [14:53:19] <@stuart> JAVA IS THE FUTURE [14:53:38] It's the Java brainwash you get at IBM [14:54:03] shouldn't that be Sun? [14:54:06] oh man [14:54:08] it gets better, too [14:54:13] So, rather than trying to "fix" HTML and CSS with XBL (and introducing [14:54:13] dependencies), I propose to skip XBL and instead work directly on this [14:54:13] new language for applications, which doesn't need HTML and CSS at all. [14:54:15] <@Hixie> where is this? i missed the java part [14:54:17] stephend: IBM wished it invented Java :) [14:54:17] this is gold [14:54:23] <@Hixie> oh this is the bert mail [14:54:24] MrMazda [fmcz@moz-39AC71E7.ij.net] has joined #developers [14:54:24] <@Hixie> ok [14:54:28] Hixie: 5th paragraph of the bertmail [14:54:33] <@Hixie> haven't got that far yet [14:54:38] <@Hixie> one firedrill at a time [14:54:45] <@Hixie> first, web forms 2 going to W3C WD [14:54:53] <@Hixie> then, XBL2. [14:54:56] Leandro [chatzilla@moz-AF22B000.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #developers [14:55:10] <@stuart> i vote for wf2 being a cr [14:55:19] another spec we can ignore, neat [14:55:30] <@Hixie> which one? [14:55:40] wf2 :) [14:55:43] <@Hixie> hey! [14:55:50] Hixie beats doron [14:55:50] once it goes w3c, who will want to impl it! [14:55:51] <@stuart> it is no xforms, to be fair [14:55:53] linuxmigration|afk [linuxmigra@moz-4C8836FC.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net] is now known as linuxmigration [14:55:58] <@Hixie> doron: it's still be at WHATWG! [14:56:15] Hixie: that isn't much of a reason to support it too :) [14:56:18] <@Hixie> doron: the spec explicitly says that there is also a WHATWG version! [14:56:21] <@Hixie> pah! [14:56:55] doron: ie event model isn't very compatible w/ w3 event model [14:56:55] linuxmigration [linuxmigra@moz-4C8836FC.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net] is now known as IRCMonkey5270536 [14:57:03] IRCMonkey5270536 [linuxmigra@moz-4C8836FC.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net] is now known as linuxmigration_ [14:57:09] why did we try to implement xmlhttprequest compat if we knew it wasn't going to match? [14:57:10] timeless: IE's model is the complete opposite [14:57:21] Java is less dangerous than JavaScript, the worst invention of all times, apparently... [14:57:35] timeless: our compat is pretty good, we do somethings better than IE when it comes to the MSDN spec :) [14:57:43] doron: yeah, but live.com *expects* that there's no param to the onreadystatechange method [14:57:43] glazou: that's because it's very unlikely to run on a different system than the one on which it was built [14:57:59] so it passes a boolean and expects the only time that first param coerces to true is when it passes it [14:58:17] linuxmigration_ [linuxmigra@moz-4C8836FC.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net] is now known as linuxmigration [14:58:23] timeless: live.com only supports IE officially anyways I thought [14:58:26] Java's security model is very strange [14:58:46] sheppy-lunch [sheppy@moz-EEBE1278.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] is now known as sheppy [14:58:48] doron: there's code to try to mishandle both firefox and oepra [14:58:53] since you accept certs at the same time you give privileges to an applet [14:59:36] timeless: I wouldn't be surprised, atlas already slows us down on purpose [15:00:17] Mossop [Mossop@moz-4386CB1E.swan.cable.ntl.com] is now known as Mossop_sleep [15:00:55] doron: URL? [15:01:15] the live guys worked pretty hard to make their stuff work with Firefox, even working around some pretty gross editor bugs [15:02:40] shaver: atlas loads a "mozilla" compat lib that adds all the IEisms to Firefox (and Safari) by changing the prototypes of HTML*, which is pretty slow [15:03:17] doron: intentionally? [15:03:17] iesms? [15:03:20] it adds vbasicisms [15:03:25] doron: rather, they do that with the intent of making us slow? [15:03:27] are these things really part of js? [15:03:29] hmm Windows Live [15:03:38] rTrim and friends? [15:03:49] annotating prototypes didn't used to be that slow, in the good old days of mariner [15:03:55] shaver: I have no idea if they intended it, but they could have done it better with little effort [15:04:02] doron: well, you said they intended it [15:04:19] which is a pretty different thing, and one you might want to take care with [15:04:22] have you told them how to improve it? [15:04:39] shaver: is there a feedback url? [15:04:50] actually, I have [15:04:55] or will you give them the feedback about how to handle domevents? [15:05:25] I'm not going to piece together your screed and send it along, no thank you [15:06:39] Firefox-Cairo: 'WINNT 5.2 gaius-vm Depend ReferenceVM' has changed state from Burning to Success. [15:07:18] vlad: if I manually create a bookmark and make ICON="" will that force it to just be a blank icon? [15:07:33] <@vlad> hmm [15:07:51] and leverage our "never update the favicon in the bookmarks file" feature? [15:07:56] <@vlad> it'll either force it to be blank or it will re-download it [15:08:07] Ryan|work [rflint@467D0239.371BFD8A.93BBE11C.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: -> home [15:08:17] beltzner: use a data URL that's a 1-pixel transparent gif [15:08:22] <@vlad> to make sure you'd want a dummy non-image URL [15:08:24] <@Hixie> right, replied to bert [15:08:28] <@vlad> no, that'll actually give you that gif as the favicon [15:08:30] gavin [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [15:08:31] <@vlad> I think he wants the default page [15:08:32] gavin [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #developers [15:08:36] no, I think he doesn't [15:08:37] <@vlad> so you want to use something invalid for an image [15:08:43] I think he wants "nothing" [15:08:48] I do want nothing [15:08:50] <@vlad> oh. [15:08:55] <@vlad> that's pretty evil, why do you watn nothing? [15:08:57] and I want it to stay that way, ideally [15:08:58] though earlier he wanted _something_, and as worried that it would be refetched from the site [15:09:00] <@vlad> (but yes, you want to use the 1x1 gif data URL) [15:09:18] because the default globe icon is fugly? :) [15:09:20] mw22_away [chatzilla@74AB5FE.5A222911.78A397D7.IP] has joined #developers [15:09:21] what is that data URL? [15:09:34] hm, Windows Live is broken here on trunk [15:09:58] mcsmurf, it spews to console, yeah [15:10:01] but I get like [15:10:01] stephank [stephank@moz-E21AAFA9.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [15:10:03] Warning: reference to undefined property _obj.TIMEOUT [15:10:05] Source File: http://search.live.com/live/search/searchbox.js?v=3.12 [15:10:05] Line: 2892 [15:10:07] 20 of that warnings per second [15:11:02] vlad: so, like, ICON="chrome://path-to-transparent-gif"? [15:11:12] NeilZZZ [neil@805FBB74.43DBE11A.6FB37ABF.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [15:11:19] only a data: encoding of it [15:11:21] <@vlad> ICON="data:image/gif,00112233445566778899" etc [15:11:26] you can use hixie's data url kitchen [15:11:30] and a 1x1 transparent gif [15:11:36] and it'll make you the URL [15:11:44] Hixie: good answer (re: bert) [15:12:09] I was just gonna find a 1x1 transparent PNG on the web, bookmark it, and take it out of there ... [15:12:11] <@vlad> wow: http://www.dsiegel.com/tips/wonk5/single.html [15:12:14] but your way works to! [15:12:50] o [15:12:56] dotclear [15:12:58] that's classic [15:13:45] <@vlad> the best part is, that guy's page up above looks like ass [15:13:51] beltzner goes to finda single pixel gif [15:14:08] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #developers [15:14:11] Well, the nice people at Netscape made a decision: if Netscape is low on memory, it sacrifices transparency for the sake of displaying the whole page. The interesting thing is that reloading the page almost always fixes the problem, because a reload causes reallocation of the cache. Why can't they reallocate the cache when a new image comes in?? I have 48 megabytes of RAM, I give Netscape 12 megs, and I still see this bug. [15:14:13] <@vlad> http://www.dsiegel.com/tips/ ? utter ass. [15:14:17] awesome [15:14:52] hey, not a lot of web-goodness in 1997 [15:15:29] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] is now known as NeilZZZ [15:15:35] stephend: you didn't see my Dr. Snuggles page, obviously! [15:15:41] all images from CorelDraw! [15:15:57] heh [15:16:07] 1996 was what, 3.0 days? [15:16:10] yeah, 3.0 gold, I think [15:16:27] sayrer misses be's homepage [15:16:30] I'm waiting for Web 2.0 Gold [15:16:42] sayrer, that was a hilarious sendup [15:16:52] I think matt fisher or someone did it? [15:17:00] fisher and chouck [15:17:18] http://web.archive.org/web/20000815055653/people.netscape.com/brendan/ [15:17:41] he used to get the best mails [15:17:47] about the JS errors [15:17:49] the clock is broken :/ [15:17:58] ah now it works [15:18:09] when in doubt, reload [15:18:23] shaver, from people who obviously didn't realize he _created_ the language, surely? [15:18:34] not just, and stop calling me shirley [15:18:56] yes, ma'am! [15:19:32] <@brendan> chouck was first js team member (before netscape 4, js team was only me fulltime) [15:19:41] <@brendan> but he didn't know enough js to write that joke page [15:19:46] <@brendan> matt (js qa) had to help [15:20:10] then matt changed into a search dev ;-) [15:20:12] or something [15:20:40] sicking [chatzilla@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814] [15:20:41] aaronlev [chatzilla@moz-B0ED68CF.c3-0.arl-ubr2.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com] is now known as aaronaway [15:20:53] sicking [chatzilla@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] has joined #developers [15:21:33] heh the dancing noodle...I still have a screensaver somewhere with it [15:22:04] <@brendan> matt's heading up account mgmt for liveops now [15:22:07] the dancing baby was an even better phenom [15:22:13] Pike [Axel_Hecht@moz-E0C33CEC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #developers [15:22:35] jband still @ tellme? [15:23:25] kreeger [nickkreege@78FD1A3B.1C705F59.D2415654.IP] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [15:23:46] kreeger [nickkreege@78FD1A3B.1C705F59.D2415654.IP] has joined #developers [15:24:27] wgianopoulos [chatzilla@moz-F5CA1EA.raytheon.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.4/2006060814] [15:26:04] graydon [graydon@moz-4322C8E6.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #developers [15:26:35] <@Hixie> man, this ibm guy really doesn't get that WF2 is backwards compatible [15:26:44] <@Hixie> not surprising he doesn't like it [15:26:52] <@Hixie> he's missing the only thing about wf2 that makes it better than xforms [15:27:31] sdwilsh [chatzilla@moz-DCFDE60C.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #developers [15:28:33] Jesse_ [jesse@moz-60659AA0.san.res.rr.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Jesse_ [15:28:33] d'oh [15:28:49] Hixie: we'll have aaronlev hit him with a cluestick [15:28:51] jhpedemonte: ping [15:28:55] sdwilsh-afk [chatzilla@moz-DCFDE60C.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [15:30:31] beltzner, patch in bug 344983 [15:30:59] beltzner waves his magic wand [15:31:21] glazou just learned his neighbour passed away a few hours ago:( [15:31:24] :( [15:31:28] Oof [15:31:49] wolfiR [stark@1A201497.5AEF2A6A.3E7AAD02.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [15:32:18] davel [davel@moz-4F4E281A.dsl.static.sonic.net] is now known as davel_afk [15:32:22] this is a bit of shitty day [15:32:35] from sunrise to sunfall [15:32:43] glazou: sorry to hear that :( [15:33:03] hixie: that shouldn't really come as a surprise [15:33:06] glazou wishes he could erase the 17th of august 2006 from his calendar [15:33:17] the html working group long ago gave up on the idea of retaining backwards compatibility [15:33:39] markp is caught up with the mailing list thread in question [15:33:47] markp, the html wg gave up long ago on just everything [15:34:48] Jesse_ [jesse@moz-9C41F208.san.res.rr.com] has joined #developers [15:34:51] Uri [chatzilla@5C8A6909.C69CF1E8.98610313.IP] has joined #developers [15:35:12] i liked the part about fiduciary obligations [15:35:26] "damn it, we paid for this standards body!" [15:36:03] humph [chatzilla@21100716.6DD7AF20.1139E686.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814] [15:36:28] IanN|Away [IanN@696B8DF2.94C64E99.A895405E.IP] is now known as IanN [15:38:46] i wrote it differently some time ago [15:39:38] "f two crazy frogs can make their own extension to HTML4 that way, good or bad, what's the point spending a year in a Consortium and paying a $50k annual fee?" [15:39:43] mcsmurf: that's the problem i've been fighting [15:39:48] windows live is broken [15:39:59] it expects IE style no param for handleEvent methods [15:40:01] also in like FF 1.5? [15:40:23] speaking of wf2... [15:40:39] timeless: that is where the atlas compat layers comes in probably :) [15:40:40] weirdal: please add my name to http://wiki.mozilla.org/DOM:Web_Forms_2.0#Key_Personnel [15:40:48] bsmedberg: pong [15:40:52] as accessibility guru [15:40:52] NeilZZZ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [15:40:55] :-) Okay! [15:41:40] Do you want your e-mail posted? [15:42:14] that's probably not necessary [15:42:14] i'm googleable [15:42:16] doron: that's what they forgot to do [15:42:28] and do you want to be listed as a definite contributor, or not committed yet? [15:42:34] markp hopes he doesn't get sued for turning "google" into an adjective [15:42:36] doron: i'm still disassembling one of the file's js [15:42:50] definite contributor [15:42:56] that's funny [15:42:58] markp: IBM lawyers will protect you! [15:43:09] firefox trunk with a fresh profile started up with two pages open [15:43:23] done [15:43:24] db48x: we got that too [15:43:25] though i can't contribute much until after ff 2 cools down and/or ships [15:43:25] timeless: use IE! :) [15:43:28] i thought it was a local feature [15:43:32] doron: um... [15:43:39] i'd use oepra, but it's broken tehre too [15:43:44] markp: hehe, we're aiming this at trunk anyway [15:43:47] jhpedemonte: I thought we took mozillainterfaces[-src].jar out of dist/bin/sdk [15:43:55] jhpedemonte: did we only do that on some branch or another? [15:43:57] timeless: yea? [15:43:57] yeah i saw that [15:44:03] is it deliberate, or accidental? [15:44:08] i wouldn't know [15:44:15] i've wasted thelast couple of hours on live.com [15:44:23] all i know is it's mostly there fault [15:44:31] what i haven't figured out is why it isn't entirely there fault [15:45:05] bsmedberg: i think that's in one of the patches that hasn't been checked in yet. [15:45:05] glazou goes to bed, just for the pleasure of letting this bad day go away ; g'night people [15:45:13] weirdal: the good news is that there's a lot of overlap with the new DHTML Accessibility roles and states [15:45:16] markp: if you don't want to add to the discussion pae, there's a newsgroup posting on m.d.t.dom [15:45:32] glazou [daniel@F2DF90F5.71C69A21.DF976834.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: [15:45:35] which we can use for some of the new input types [15:45:36] jhpedemonte: if I find it, can I check it in? it's needed for UB stuff [15:45:38] hm, I don't know about those roles & states, any references? [15:46:14] http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Accessible_DHTML [15:46:18] and http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Building_accessible_custom_components_in_XUL [15:46:44] bsmedberg: it's mixed in with the build patch in bug 333618. but you can just remove the lines that add it to dist/bin/sdk. [15:46:44] debuted in ff 1.5 [15:46:54] jhpedemonte: FWIW, "/builds/xr-ub/mozilla/build/macosx/univeral/unify: compareZipArchives: members differ: org/mozilla/xpcom/nsICache.java org/mozilla/xpcom/gfxIFormats.java" [15:47:04] aaron and i have been using these techniques a lot in ff 2 [15:47:10] ah, I was just asking aaronlev about a11y icons in WF2 [15:47:15] the new prefs window uses it in several places [15:47:17] WeirdAl bookmarks those pages [15:47:23] search lxr for "wairole" [15:47:42] or mxr-test for "aaa" in .xul files [15:47:47] bsmedberg: you get that with the latest patch i checked in today? [15:47:50] Standard8 [mark@moz-BD7E5647.demon.co.uk] has joined #developers [15:48:13] jhpedemonte: no, I don't think I picked up that patch [15:48:13] Enn [chatzilla@moz-F0E247D9.eicat.ca] has quit IRC: Client exited [15:48:35] jhpedemonte: that patch will change things, but I'm still wondering what's different about the two [15:48:37] in a bit. In the meantime, markp, I'd welcome your ideas for WF2 impl. or design, again, either on the wiki or in the newsgroup [15:48:44] np [15:48:45] rebron [chatzilla@moz-8CC11DA2.googlewifi.com] has joined #developers [15:48:56] i'll stop spamming the channel [15:49:05] everything is on the table, especially stuff I haven't thought of :) [15:50:08] m.d.t.dom is https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-tech-dom ? [15:50:26] yeah, that'd work [15:50:30] ok [15:51:01] jhpedemonte: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/60 [15:51:46] brendan: got a minute? [15:51:49] Leandro [chatzilla@moz-AF22B000.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit IRC: Client exited [15:51:51] rebron [chatzilla@moz-8CC11DA2.googlewifi.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [15:53:48] bsmedberg: oh, that's right. since you're on an intel mac, you don't get the crash that the tinderbox is experiencing. still, not sure why those would be different. i'll set up a build on my intel mac. [15:56:17] hish [chatzilla@3ED96446.D9F09C92.AA92C075.IP] has joined #developers [15:59:08] wow, that second link (accessible XUL) is really cool :) [15:59:23] just the sort of thing I actually need for my XUL Widgets project [15:59:51] <@vlad> mento: well, I've got HITheme stuff sort of working [15:59:55] <@vlad> except it only works in cairo builds [15:59:58] <@vlad> tee hee. [16:00:05] vlad: uhoh [16:00:17] did you try StartQuartzDrawing for non-cairo? [16:00:21] <@vlad> haven't looked into why yet, though i'm not sure if I should even bother to be honest [16:00:25] <@vlad> yeah [16:00:46] <@vlad> since in theory cairo drawing will be faster/more native on the mac (mac will probably the best gfx platform) [16:01:23] i'm sure it'll also solve all of the curious quartz-in-quickdraw bugs i'm seeing [16:01:39] or at least that's what i've been blaming those bugs on. if it doesn't solve 'em, then that's not what it was :) [16:01:45] <@vlad> yep, since the whole stack will be just quartz all the way through [16:02:07] weirdal: thanks, i actually wrote that about six months ago but just recently got permission to post it outside the ibm firewall [16:02:07] <@vlad> oh, you might know; is there a HITheme version of GetThemeMetric? [16:02:13] <@vlad> it seems like GetThemeMetric still needs to be used [16:02:30] there's no hitheme version of that that i know of, and i've looked [16:02:44] <@vlad> ok [16:03:13] <@vlad> I didn't see one either [16:03:20] <@vlad> I need to do some more cleanup here and then I'll post this [16:03:27] ss|lunch [ss@moz-EE205926.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] is now known as ss|work [16:03:28] the hitheme-for-qdgfx would be nice only because it should be possible and it would give us the ability to transition more easily, but it's not really a necessity [16:03:30] mvl [michiel@moz-2F035FEA.direct-adsl.nl] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [16:03:33] <@vlad> yeah [16:03:38] <@vlad> it's probably something simple [16:03:43] <@vlad> since I end up with just a totally white page [16:04:01] i've done hitheme-in-qd before - i think i referred you to the sample patch for that - so i know it's possible [16:04:23] abwillis [abwillis@moz-79EB53EB.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #developers [16:04:46] <@vlad> yeah I don't thinkk it's a HITheme issue, just something in my code [16:05:30] 'k, lemme know when it's ready [16:05:37] <@vlad> will do [16:05:38] i'll give you a moderately prioritized review :) [16:06:55] Standard8 [mark@moz-BD7E5647.demon.co.uk] has quit IRC: Quit: time for z [16:07:05] <@vlad> oh, also; dbaron had some questions regarding native themed widgets in form controls [16:07:23] <@vlad> there are a bunch of forms.css changes that were "camino only", though they're enabled with cocoa as the toolkit [16:07:51] bsmedberg [bsmedberg@moz-FBF198A7.jst.pa.atlanticbb.net] is now known as bsmedberg-away [16:08:03] gandalf [e-gand@FB719925.F40EBDB0.AB2CA809.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [16:08:16] davel_afk [davel@moz-4F4E281A.dsl.static.sonic.net] is now known as davel [16:08:26] markp [markp@moz-762FC252.nc.us.ibm.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.70-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.1/2006012608] [16:09:18] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #developers [16:09:38] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] is now known as NeilZZZ [16:09:41] poningru_ [poningru@moz-33BD3417.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #developers [16:09:55] brettw [brettw@moz-CD91E596.google.com] has joined #developers [16:11:29] i seem to recall flash being able to use a microphone [16:11:39] poningru__ [poningru@moz-21E2857A.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #developers [16:11:51] poningru [poningru@moz-21E2857A.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [16:11:58] does anyone have abetter reference than http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/2006/06/hear_this.html ? [16:12:27] mcsmurf: yes (re the HTTP server) [16:12:34] and it's almost done! [16:12:45] poningru__ [poningru@moz-21E2857A.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] is now known as poningru [16:12:53] timeless, webcam too, I think? [16:13:01] stephend: url appreciated [16:13:20] http://www.masternewmedia.org/news/2006/07/18/record_and_publish_your_video.htm ? [16:13:36] http://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/flashplayer/help/help04.html#117089 [16:13:52] kitos [16:14:11] poningru_ [poningru@moz-33BD3417.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [16:14:18] kiitos ;) [16:14:19] timeless: ole hyva [16:14:20] pkasting: bug 348929 and bug 3489373 are caused by the same problem and are fixed by the patch in 348937 [16:14:28] err [16:14:29] I mean [16:14:37] smaug: spanish accent [16:14:43] bug 348937 and 348929 are the same bug [16:15:12] tracy [tracy@moz-C4D2698A.dsl.ksc2mo.swbell.net] has joined #developers [16:15:14] NeilZZZ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [16:16:02] brendan [brendaneic@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] has quit IRC: Quit: brendan [16:17:25] Uri [chatzilla@5C8A6909.C69CF1E8.98610313.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: good night [16:17:26] philor [ringnalda@moz-941BB917.eug.or.uspops.net] has joined #developers [16:18:48] gavin2 [gavin.shar@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #developers [16:20:25] bz_away [bzbarsky@moz-6157A916.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] is now known as bz [16:21:12] mcsmurf: latest and greatest is at [16:21:23] tracy [tracy@moz-C4D2698A.dsl.ksc2mo.swbell.net] has left #developers [16:21:35] Waldo|mac, basically I wanted to know if it supports SSL, too [16:21:38] mcsmurf ducks :D [16:22:09] mcsmurf: according to biesi, not possible yet without reimplementing SSL, and I'm not gonna do that [16:22:26] hm ok, then I need to find some net access for this PC here [16:22:30] Waldo|mac: is that for mozilla code? [16:22:37] sucky WLAN card/drivers [16:23:04] sdwilsh finds that very interesting [16:23:25] gandalf [e-gand@moz-A43A161F.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #developers [16:24:06] smaugafk [chatzilla@93F5D356.851FF927.9BAB7257.IP] is now known as smaugZzz [16:24:39] sdwilsh: the original intent was for unit testing (see ), especially of code that requires accessing an HTTP server (for example, the updates code), but it may find its way into developer extensions, too, depending on how things go [16:24:57] especially since Belkin managed to release five versions of my WLAN card with the same name, but different chipset each time [16:25:03] Waldo|mac: yeah, I'm thinking in terms of extension dev - that's really powerful [16:25:04] sdwilsh: works on 2.0, probably 1.5, and definitely trunk [16:25:05] now I need to find the chipset again... [16:25:19] Waldo|mac: that is rad [16:25:24] bline [chatzilla@moz-26006831.demon.nl] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [XULRunner 1.8.0.6/2006081008] [16:25:50] is it in the tree yet? [16:25:51] Waldo|mac: now we just need upnp support :) [16:26:13] bent [chatzilla-@moz-98C3E399.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #developers [16:27:08] sayrer: no, I need to fix up netwerk tests to use it and (ideally) write some non-netwerk tests that use it so its presence outside of netwerk/ and probably in tools/test-harness/ can be justified [16:27:55] stephend [stephend@moz-40449CC1.sbndin.dsl-w.verizon.net] is now known as stephend|dinner [16:27:57] Waldo|mac: how does it decide how to set headers and such? like charset? [16:28:00] sdwilsh: if you're looking for me, I'm gone; I have a few errands to run [16:28:12] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #developers [16:28:36] WeirdAl [chatzilla@moz-9A727803.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Client exited [16:28:43] WeirdAl: I have to go ref a soccer game in a half an hour, so I can't work now anyway :p [16:28:46] a feature like mod_asis would be awesome [16:29:02] I want to test the feed parsing with different charsets and such [16:29:07] sayrer: some headers are set automatically, like content-length, server, and connection; the rest are mostly handled by the individual request handlers themselves [16:29:35] sayrer: you could test charset handling with this, definitely (although I don't think you could do it without writing request handlers in JS) [16:29:45] sdwilsh ponders why we still use the ns prefix for a lot of things [16:29:52] can the browser visit it when it's running? [16:30:04] Same reason Apple uses the NS prefix still. Inertia. :) [16:30:05] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] is now known as NeilZZZ [16:30:11] hehe...they do? [16:30:15] Yeah [16:30:17] NextStep [16:30:21] ah [16:30:35] sayrer: yes; the request handler writes data to the response, which is mostly a wrapper around a tempfile, and then the header and contents of the tempfile are flushed [16:30:42] I just figured we'd try using something like moz now when we can to differentiate [16:31:12] Waldo|mac: now I'm getting greedy. Are there docs? [16:31:42] sayrer: the README at the location mentioned, plus what's in the IDL file there, too -- also the code is doc'd pretty well too [16:31:54] cool [16:32:22] anyway, I will use it for feeds, so there's justification [16:32:52] oh, I know there's justification -- just none that's concrete in test code as of yet ;-) [16:35:09] sdwilsh [chatzilla@moz-DCFDE60C.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] is now known as sdwilsh-afk [16:36:53] NeilZZZ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [16:37:43] mm, mod_asis looks like a good followup bug [16:39:57] <@Hixie> well [16:40:05] <@Hixie> my last e-mail sure seem to stop the thread [16:40:14] brendan [brendaneic@moz-B076F4FC.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #developers [16:40:14] ChanServ [services@localhost.net] has set mode +o brendan [16:41:49] ShareBird [chatzilla@DB8AE7C8.781ABB7F.9D21A796.IP] has joined #developers [16:42:39] smontaguAway [chatzilla@moz-244E134F.broadband.actcom.net.il] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.2/2006042809] [16:43:20] Mozilla1.8: 'WINNT 5.2 pacifica-vm Depend Fx-Nightly' has changed state from Success to Test Failed. [16:43:42] <@bz> Hixie: which thread? [16:44:02] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2006Aug/0111.html probably [16:44:12] philor [ringnalda@moz-941BB917.eug.or.uspops.net] has quit IRC: Quit: philor [16:44:20] <@Hixie> bz: the one about web forms 2 vs xforms in the chairs@w3.org mailing list [16:44:31] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #developers [16:44:36] Waldo|mac, I'd really rather not use a tempfile in that server [16:44:46] biesi: what do you suggest, then? [16:44:59] pipes, storage streams, whatever [16:45:10] pipes don't work, for reasons already discovered [16:45:17] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] is now known as NeilZZZ [16:45:21] I haven't looked into storage streams [16:45:32] sipaq [weblog@moz-61B41D48.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #developers [16:46:51] Mano: I think disabling listitems only applies to [16:47:10] brendan [brendaneic@moz-B076F4FC.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [16:48:03] <@bz> Hixie: got a link? [16:48:21] NeilAway: figured. happen to know why? [16:48:31] <@bz> Waldo|mac: what breaks with pipes? [16:48:38] jhpedemonte [jhpedemont@moz-6E4EB9A1.austin.ibm.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 2.0b1/2006071020] [16:49:11] bz: bug 347281; apparently there's a thread deadlock [16:49:40] <@Hixie> bz: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2006JulSep/thread.html#msg38 [16:49:59] <@bz> Waldo|mac: fun. :( [16:49:59] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #developers [16:50:05] NeilZZZ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [16:50:08] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] is now known as NeilZZZ [16:50:30] bent [chatzilla-@moz-98C3E399.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [16:51:20] <@bz> Waldo|mac: hmm... Does it work to use an unlimited-size pipe? [16:51:21] plasticmillion [chatzilla@5E12EA1A.1AFA5C43.5DC06702.IP] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [16:51:21] stephend|dinner [stephend@moz-40449CC1.sbndin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit IRC: Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Leading Edge IRC [16:51:27] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@5E12EA1A.1AFA5C43.5DC06702.IP] has joined #developers [16:51:33] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@5E12EA1A.1AFA5C43.5DC06702.IP] is now known as plasticmillion [16:52:25] mento [mark@45E77367.4D5468FB.6E4B7F6D.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: mento [16:52:28] bz: it was, I believe: |pipe.init(false, false, 0, Math.pow(2, 32) - 1, null);| [16:53:02] plasticmillion [chatzilla@5E12EA1A.1AFA5C43.5DC06702.IP] is now known as IRCMonkey5270537 [16:53:10] bz: the problem was that the buffer of data to flush from the socket is full, not particularly with the pipe itself [16:53:17] bent [chatzilla-@moz-98C3E399.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #developers [16:53:51] NeilZZZ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [16:55:23] kreeger [nickkreege@78FD1A3B.1C705F59.D2415654.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: kreeger [16:55:27] NeilAway [neil@moz-8A2C3F43.adsl.newnet.co.uk] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [16:55:38] IRCMonkey5270537 [chatzilla@5E12EA1A.1AFA5C43.5DC06702.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [16:56:54] <@bz> Hixie: I find this quote interesting: [16:56:56] <@bz> "It is unclear from your prior response why you do not feel you and the [16:56:56] <@bz> director have a direct fiduciary obligation to working groups such as HTML [16:56:57] <@bz> and XForms " [16:57:21] <@bz> Waldo|mac: and that's a blocking stream, I guess.... ok. [16:57:24] <@Hixie> bz: yeah [16:59:42] NeilAway [neil@moz-8A2C3F43.adsl.newnet.co.uk] has joined #developers [17:00:15] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #developers [17:00:59] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] is now known as NeilZZZ [17:01:02] ShareBird [chatzilla@DB8AE7C8.781ABB7F.9D21A796.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.5/2006070513] [17:01:43] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [17:01:49] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [17:03:34] dbaron [dbaron@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [17:04:02] dbaron [dbaron@moz-A8CDE328.office.mozilla.org] has joined #developers [17:04:02] ChanServ [services@localhost.net] has set mode +o dbaron [17:04:30] biesi, ping, I have the + problem again, you know which encoding I should use for the file again? [17:04:41] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [17:05:33] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [17:05:38] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [17:05:59] mw22_away: no BOM [17:06:13] and utf-8 [17:06:32] Pike, ok, but I have utf-8 (I think) [17:06:47] the leading crap is the BOM, byte ordering mark [17:06:58] never understood why utf-8 would need that, but wth [17:08:40] <@Hixie> aw man [17:08:47] <@Hixie> i SO want to reply to john's e-mail [17:08:55] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [17:09:11] Grr, I use utf-8, but I still get the leading crap [17:09:39] beltzner: I can't find addons in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=234295&action=edit [17:10:26] beltzner: oops, sorry, I do [17:11:23] rebron [chatzilla@moz-8CC11DA2.googlewifi.com] has joined #developers [17:11:27] Tomcat [Tomcat@moz-BB6AEA99.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit IRC: Quit: zZz [17:11:28] Ryan_ [rflint@moz-4D904B3A.res.east.verizon.net] has joined #developers [17:11:37] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [17:11:42] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [17:12:42] Ryan [rflint@moz-4D904B3A.res.east.verizon.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [17:13:12] Ryan_ [rflint@moz-4D904B3A.res.east.verizon.net] is now known as Ryan [17:14:21] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [17:14:28] danbeck [danbeck@779D5CA1.9CC1D69A.52393332.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [17:15:02] So - we need to take about 15 minutes of downtime on the cvs server to do some diagnostics to understand if we have a hardware problem there (had a kernel panic this morning). I know this a terrible day to do this - but we need to figure out asap if we have a bigger problem. Figuring we could do it at 4PM PST today. Is that going to work? [17:15:09] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [17:15:14] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [17:16:11] terrible day, why [17:16:21] is there some freeze coming up? [17:16:43] yeah - 1.8 freeze for 1.8.1/FF2 [17:16:46] hello, anyone interested in looking at some stack traces of crashes I'm getting on the 1_8_BRANCH? [17:16:50] Firefox 2 Beta2 Lockdown [17:16:51] now [17:16:55] already happened? [17:16:57] or got delayed? [17:17:04] it is now [17:17:09] but there is a few straggling patches [17:17:19] kiko [kiko@moz-21AE8E0E.dsl.telesp.net.br] is now known as kiko-zzz [17:17:34] I'm quite concerned with the amount of crashes I'm getting [17:17:46] mixedpuppy, which crashes? [17:18:09] http://pastebin.mozilla.org/40 has a number of common crashes I see [17:18:18] So when I look at http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/toolkit/content/widgets/ I don't see scrollbox.xml in there, but I know it's there, it just doesn't show. How's that possible? [17:18:38] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [17:18:40] scrollbox.xml 10k Aug 2 18:14 [17:18:40] the moz build I'm on is from Aug 6, but I get many of the same problems in a dev build from Aug 14 [17:18:46] my browser is better than yours ;-) [17:19:13] <@bz> mw22_away: shift-reload? [17:19:15] the most common crashes are in nsCSSStyleSheet::Release() or at some point after js_GC [17:19:21] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [17:19:26] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [17:19:40] bz, doh! [17:20:31] self [borg@moz-6D7347A.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [17:20:44] robcee [rcampbell@moz-B7FD1F7E.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] is now known as robc_afk [17:20:58] <@bz> mw22_away: sounds like cache corruption? [17:21:20] bz, I guess so, anyway, problem solved :) [17:21:40] self [borg@moz-6D7347A.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net] has joined #developers [17:21:56] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [17:22:05] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [17:22:09] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [17:23:29] sipaq [weblog@moz-61B41D48.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [17:23:29] coop [coop@moz-ED3265B4.sympatico.ca] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [17:23:41] coop [coop@moz-ED3265B4.sympatico.ca] has joined #developers [17:23:48] mento [mark@moz-538BE2ED.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #developers [17:25:24] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [17:25:28] mento [mark@moz-538BE2ED.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit IRC: Quit: mento [17:26:13] cvs.mozilla.org will be down from 4 to 4:15 PST today for some emergency maintenance and diagnostics. This message will be updated as more information is available. [17:26:31] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [17:26:37] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [17:27:07] mcsmurf [chatzilla@moz-2B507B46.dip.t-dialin.net] has changed topic to "cvs.mozilla.org down from 4 to 4:15PST today || Use the new pastebin at http://pastebin.mozilla.org || http://landfill.mozilla.org/mxr-test || Crop circle complete || http://wiki.mozilla.org/DOM:Web_Forms_2.0 for Gecko design and approach - please read and offer feedback | I think we are god for n" [17:27:43] <@bz> schrep: want to restore the blocking flag on bug 348981? [17:28:08] <@bz> schrep: it got midaired away.... [17:29:34] Mano: I guess disabling doesn't make sense in multiselect listboxes [17:29:53] bz: yep - done [17:29:56] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [17:30:06] <@bz> schrep: thanks [17:30:34] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [17:30:36] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [17:31:24] tH [r@87.102.36.237] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.5/2006070708] [17:33:09] bent [chatzilla-@moz-98C3E399.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [17:33:34] redfive [redfive@moz-98C3E399.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [17:33:35] austoo [auslandr@moz-98C3E399.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [17:35:17] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [17:36:12] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [17:36:16] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [17:36:46] bent [chatzilla-@moz-98C3E399.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #developers [17:37:13] timr_ [timr@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] has quit IRC: Quit: timr_ [17:37:14] brosnan [kbrosnan@moz-653FD72.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [17:37:59] redfive [redfive@moz-98C3E399.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #developers [17:38:01] mixedpuppy, how do you get these crashes? [17:38:20] I see Komodo in those stacks? [17:38:26] mw22_away: often when closing a dialog [17:38:35] yes, this is komodo, built on the 1.8 branch [17:39:00] we had stayed on a moz build from back in april, until recently, due to recursive loading in the css stuff [17:39:18] JasnaPaka [jasnapaka@A4A24EA4.ED0FA71B.1A5CC7E5.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Kdo zna, vi. [17:39:38] I changed our build system a bit to not include the browser chrome (the recursion was happening on browser.css), and then I was able to update to a recent cvs checkout. that is when the crashes started happening. [17:39:44] doron [doron@moz-6E4EB9A1.austin.ibm.com] is now known as doronHome [17:39:53] mixedpuppy, I think you should file a bug on this [17:40:12] I can't help you with this anyway, maybe someboy else can help you [17:41:08] it's such a non-specific bug, I'm not sure what attention it would get [17:41:08] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [17:41:09] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [17:41:13] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [17:41:15] but i'll post one [17:42:20] kbrosnan [kbrosnan@moz-653FD72.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #developers [17:42:34] ajschult [andrew@moz-533834DD.bflony.east.verizon.net] has joined #developers [17:43:32] Mozilla1.8: 'WINNT 5.2 pacifica-vm Depend Fx-Nightly' has changed state from Test Failed to Success. [17:44:17] rebron [chatzilla@moz-8CC11DA2.googlewifi.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [17:45:04] rebron [chatzilla@moz-8CC11DA2.googlewifi.com] has joined #developers [17:46:21] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [17:46:24] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [17:46:30] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [17:49:52] Well, if you scream bloody murder, and insult everyone involved in the bug, I'm pretty sure you'll get attention ;) [17:50:12] xboom [chatzilla@moz-A4BC3BB0.mpowercom.net] has joined #developers [17:50:31] yeah, administrative attention ;) [17:50:40] heh [17:50:47] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [17:51:00] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [17:51:05] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [17:51:25] mw22_away: hehe [17:51:43] rebron [chatzilla@moz-8CC11DA2.googlewifi.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 2.0b1/2006081603] [17:52:02] brendan [brendaneic@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] has joined #developers [17:52:02] ChanServ [services@localhost.net] has set mode +o brendan [17:52:10] mw22_away goes to sleep [17:52:14] piratepenguin [declan@4B9AB5B9.73FF1B33.81E00CBF.IP] has joined #developers [17:53:42] lilmatt [mwillis@moz-8BBD264E.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit IRC: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep [17:55:01] lilmatt [mwillis@moz-8BBD264E.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #developers [17:57:10] stephend [stephend@moz-40449CC1.sbndin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #developers [17:57:13] brendan, yt? [17:57:17] wtc [chatzilla@moz-9AE097E2.redhat.com] has joined #developers [17:57:24] <@brendan> yes [17:57:45] for bug 349023, I have a different stack on SeaMonkey trunk [17:57:54] I hit JS_GetClass [17:57:59] in the top frame [17:58:13] http://talkback-public.mozilla.org/search/start.jsp?search=2&type=iid&id=TB22207596H is the full [17:58:35] xboom [chatzilla@moz-A4BC3BB0.mpowercom.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.67+ [SeaMonkey 1.0.4/2006080408] [18:00:59] hi wtc [18:01:11] stephend: yay gc [18:01:33] I didn't want to spam the bug [18:01:36] I've done enough of that lately ;-( [18:01:37] timeless: hi [18:01:38] <@brendan> stephend: in the bug [18:02:13] brendan, should I paste the stack in textfile and attach? [18:02:29] a textfiel [18:02:32] sigh [18:02:57] WizKid_ [hesslow@moz-2DBCA9FD.swipnet.se] has quit IRC: Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de ) [18:03:26] <@brendan> stephend: if it's not too deep [18:03:40] ok [18:03:43] <@brendan> if anyone gets it in a debugger, find a brendan, bz, dbaron, mrbkap type [18:03:55] brendan? [18:03:56] <@brendan> igor, if he's on irc (must remind him to get on) [18:04:09] when something calls newresolve [18:04:24] what protects the newly resolved item? [18:04:38] is it protected by reachability from its resolver? [18:04:58] <@brendan> fix the question to be well-stated, and it answers itself [18:05:08] <@brendan> resolve, new or old, always resolves by defining a property [18:05:17] <@brendan> property == strong ref [18:06:04] so, if we had something that didn't behave that way [18:06:19] could we crash with a stack like stephend's? :) [18:06:49] or is it impossible for someone to write a bad js"class" that misbehaves like that [18:07:08] timeless remembers a form control which disavowed something it enumerated [18:07:18] sheppy [sheppy@moz-EEBE1278.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Quitting! [18:07:18] reed [reed@moz-AC62DFA1.griffis.dynamic.msstate.edu] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [18:08:41] mw22_away [chatzilla@74AB5FE.5A222911.78A397D7.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [18:08:47] dbaron_ [dbaron@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] has joined #developers [18:08:56] wow, dcomcnfg is an interesting tool [18:08:57] reed [reed@moz-8B91DE17.vpn.dynamic.msstate.edu] has joined #developers [18:09:04] Pike [Axel_Hecht@moz-E0C33CEC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [18:10:28] bz [bzbarsky@moz-6157A916.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] is now known as bz_away [18:10:37] dbaron [dbaron@moz-A8CDE328.office.mozilla.org] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [18:10:37] Hixie, "john's mail"? [18:10:50] Mnyromyr [Mnyromyr@B2521176.7B0892CB.771966F7.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.71 [Netscape 7.1/20030624] [18:12:38] bc [bclary@moz-400A639F.direcpc.com] has joined #developers [18:13:08] lilly? [18:13:11] sp3000 [chatzilla@F4205B63.F64F4E60.55E1D0E4.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: z [18:13:16] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [18:15:18] dietrich [dietrich@B6C469E7.10DA35A7.E2CA354A.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: dietrich [18:15:24] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [18:15:36] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [18:15:52] <@Hixie> biesi: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2006JulSep/0071.html [18:16:26] WeirdAl [chatzilla@moz-F897DC70.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #developers [18:16:26] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [18:16:29] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [18:16:31] thx [18:16:34] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [18:16:42] <@Hixie> biesi: the other mails on that (now quite long) thread are quite fun too [18:17:30] Hannibal [Hannibal@moz-35450EE3.lijbrandt.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.4/2006060814] [18:21:15] gavin [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [18:21:59] gavin2 [gavin.shar@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [18:23:40] SeaMonkey: 'Linux comet Depend release' has changed state from Success to Burning. [18:26:49] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [18:27:12] gavin [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #developers [18:27:41] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [18:27:46] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [18:28:18] dmose [Miranda@moz-A8CDE328.office.mozilla.org] has quit IRC: Quit: Rheet! [18:30:09] mcsmurf [chatzilla@moz-2B507B46.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [SeaMonkey 1.5a/0000000000] [18:31:15] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [18:33:38] dietrich [dietrich@moz-2760DD29.pdx.net] has joined #developers [18:33:44] Camino: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.6.0 maya Depend Cm1.0-M1.8.0' has changed state from Success to Burning. [18:33:48] Camino: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.6.0 maya Depend Cm1.1-M1.8' has changed state from Success to Burning. [18:34:15] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [18:34:20] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [18:35:27] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [18:35:28] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [18:35:33] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [18:35:41] hm. anyone seen this build error before: make[8]: *** [nsPrintDialogUtil.obj] Error 4 [18:35:49] no obvious error besides that in stderr/stdout [18:36:03] marcoos [marcoos@A939BEFC.1A206934.4CABC86D.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.70-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.5/2006072809] [18:36:07] looks like cl (on a win32 box) return exit code 4? [18:37:31] cvs back online [18:41:49] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [18:43:40] sspitzer: ping [18:43:44] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [18:43:48] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [18:44:18] abwillis [abwillis@moz-79EB53EB.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9a1/2006081308] [18:44:38] davel: ping [18:44:50] Waldo|mac: pong [18:45:43] davel: the HTTP server I mentioned to you awhile back -- how/where do you want that hooked into the tree so it's usable by any unit tests that might need it? [18:45:47] SeaMonkey: 'Linux comet Depend release' has changed state from Burning to Success. [18:46:31] Waldo|mac: not sure. is there a bug filed? If not, file one (Core:Testing) and we can discuss there. [18:46:46] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [18:46:48] okay -- there's one filed, I'll attach the code I have now and we can discuss there [18:47:05] Waldo|mac: though probably it will end up in mozilla/testing/ [18:47:41] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [18:47:46] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [18:48:00] let's ship it in FF3 so we can use it for IPC [18:48:08] hah [18:48:32] hish [chatzilla@3ED96446.D9F09C92.AA92C075.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915] [18:49:49] Sander [me@E8B87793.1C0CBD4D.BA851D99.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky. 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[19:14:40] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [19:14:51] stevee [Miranda@E7FB15ED.45C97262.68D0326D.IP] is now known as stevee^afk [19:16:55] self [borg@moz-6D7347A.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [19:17:20] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [19:17:25] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [19:21:04] stephend [stephend@moz-40449CC1.sbndin.dsl-w.verizon.net] is now known as stephend|bbiab [19:22:06] kreeger [nickkreege@moz-47B0ECAE.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #developers [19:22:26] rob_strong [rob_strong@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.74-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9a1/2006070508] [19:24:29] kreeger [nickkreege@moz-47B0ECAE.kc.res.rr.com] has quit IRC: Quit: kreeger [19:28:13] <@Hixie> well [19:28:25] <@Hixie> i do believe this was the most polite e-mail i ever wrote about Web Forms 2, ever. [19:30:48] rebron [chatzilla@moz-8CC11DA2.googlewifi.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 2.0b1/2006081603] [19:32:02] SeaMonkey: 'Linux btek Depend' has changed state from Burning to Success. [19:32:05] If an xpcom components is a service and you get it via Components.Constructor() does that do the right thing? [19:32:30] versus .getService [19:33:54] I remember, once upon a time, that xpcom didn't enforce singletons for services. If you asked for one via .getInstance you would get a second instance (IIRC), is that still the case? [19:36:44] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [19:37:26] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [19:37:31] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [19:38:58] redfive, yes [19:39:05] I assume you mean createInstance rather than getInstance [19:39:36] biesi: yes, createInstance. [19:39:36] that is... it would do the wrong thing. the yes was to "is that still the case" [19:40:32] biesi: regarding nsILocalFile suckage, I just filed bug 349090, bug 349091, bug 349093, and bug 349094 [19:41:20] Hixie: link to said e-mail? Or is it W3C members only? [19:41:30] So what is the best way, or maybe the "way of the future" even, of creating a singleton component? I think I was told that using the NS_GENERIC_FACTORY_SIMPLETON_CONSTRUCTOR() macro was old. [19:41:33] "even if it currently reads as an indication to the client programmer." <-- all parts of an interface are about both user and implementor [19:41:43] redfive, huh? who told you that? [19:41:55] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2006JulSep/0075.html [19:41:56] biesi: I don't recall, maybe I"m remembering wrong. [19:42:19] bah, it's behind that closed door I can't get to [19:42:20] :( [19:42:48] So using that macro and making sure I ask for my component via getService and not Components.Constructor() or createInstance() is the way to go? [19:43:14] Pike is on european time, right? [19:43:49] redfive, if you do use that macro you can use Components.Constructor if you wish [19:43:55] although I wouldn' [19:43:58] although I wouldn't, for clarity [19:44:16] Right, I agree clarity suffers. [19:44:27] you don't need to use that macro though [19:44:34] you can just always use getService and things will be fine [19:44:52] So, for _any_ component that works? [19:45:12] yes [19:45:22] well any component that reasonably supports being a singleton [19:45:38] doing it for things like URIs might not have very good results :) [19:45:43] So what does the macro buy you? And what do you mean by "reasonably supports"? [19:46:06] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [19:46:06] "reasonably supports" = "it makes sense to use this object as a singleton" [19:46:11] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [19:46:16] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [19:46:22] the macro buys you the guarantee that nobody can ever use your class as a non-singleton [19:46:39] Oh, okay. I wasn't sure if you meant implementation details as far as ensuring singelton-ness. [19:46:43] Aha, okay. [19:47:07] So, with the macro, if I ask for createInstance() it will still just give me the singleton? [19:47:10] dria [dria@moz-B7FD1F7E.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [19:47:32] kreeger [nickkreege@moz-47B0ECAE.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #developers [19:47:32] yeah [19:48:22] Hixie: do you see a element deriving from your RepetitionElement interface in WF2? [19:48:41] dria [dria@moz-B7FD1F7E.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #developers [19:48:46] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: ? [19:49:09] I was just wondering if the repetition model you wrote for WF2 could be ported to XUL [19:49:12] <@Hixie> doesn't need to be [19:49:21] <@Hixie> once you have the WF2 repetition model implemented, it works for all XML automatically [19:49:28] kreeger [nickkreege@moz-47B0ECAE.kc.res.rr.com] has quit IRC: Quit: kreeger [19:49:30] OH, and all this time that macro was supposed to be NS_GENERIC_FACTORY_SINGLETON_CONSTRUCTOR, as the other one is a define in our files. [19:49:58] oh, heh, I didn't notice that [19:50:00] That, incidentally handled the singleton-ness with a static pointer. [19:50:21] Hixie: I tried to go to the w3c link you pasted for weirdal above, but got a password box :( [19:50:25] timr [timr@moz-40EBEA2C.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net] has joined #developers [19:50:36] I don't see many classes using the SINGLETON constructor. [19:50:43] Hixie: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-forms/current-work/#repetition2 I'm looking at this and wondering what you'll do for HTML elements, as they don't have namespaces ;) [19:50:55] <@Hixie> pkasting: ask biesi for the uri to the form to fill in to get a password [19:51:17] He told me before you posted this, but I'm too lazy to do it just to click a link [19:51:30] <@Hixie> pkasting: it's one form! [19:51:41] <@Hixie> and there'll be plenty more e-mails to read :-P [19:52:03] Argh [19:52:04] poningru [poningru@moz-21E2857A.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [19:52:19] why don't they just make the archive public [19:52:46] <@Hixie> it's a confidential mailing list [19:52:48] Hixie: the way the paragraph which I just linked to is written, HTML 4 docs can't have repetition templates or repetition blocks - the docs have to be XHTML or XML [19:52:49] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: looking [19:53:06] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: oh, that [19:53:25] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: HTML elements are all in the XHTML namespace in HTML5 [19:53:30] HTML 5... [19:53:34] WeirdAl raises a skeptical eyebrow [19:53:52] forgive me for being skeptical but I thought HTML 5 depended on WF2, not the other way around [19:54:00] <@Hixie> WF2 is part of HTML5 [19:54:05] poningru [poningru@moz-21E2857A.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #developers [19:54:08] <@Hixie> HTML5 is a language that is defined by WF2 and WA1 [19:54:26] well, the purist in me was obligated to ask about that [19:54:43] <@Hixie> yeah, there used to be a sentence to the effect of what i wrote, but it was moved to the WA1 document at some point [19:54:57] <@Hixie> just assume all elements in text/html documents are in the XHTML namespace [19:55:19] kaie [kaie@moz-29CC6A1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [19:56:14] if i modify nsDocShell.cpp, what do i have to make besides the docshell directory itself? [19:56:18] s/make/build/ [19:56:18] docshell/build [19:56:22] dbaron_ [dbaron@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] is now known as dbaron [19:56:40] biesi: ah, thanks [19:56:43] np [19:57:01] Grr [19:57:03] "Access to the W3C Member web site is available to employees of Member organizations." [19:57:42] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [19:57:42] madewokherd [urk@moz-148F0076.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [19:58:09] Camino: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.6.0 maya Depend Cm1.0-M1.8.0' has changed state from Burning to Success. [19:58:22] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [19:58:26] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [19:58:26] sayrer [chatzilla@moz-EC288A1F.cable.mindspring.com] has quit IRC: Client exited [19:59:28] WeirdAl may just want to wait for the repetition model to arrive from WF2 and adopt his code to use it [19:59:39] ss|work [ss@moz-EE205926.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] is now known as ss|gone [20:00:15] madewokherd [urk@moz-9EC98FA7.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #developers [20:01:16] KaiRo [robert@moz-F2134722.gumpendorf.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit IRC: Input/output error [20:06:08] coop [coop@moz-ED3265B4.sympatico.ca] is now known as coop_away [20:06:10] mixedpuppy [mixedpuppy@moz-1FCC0032.activestate.com] has quit IRC: Quit: mixedpuppy [20:10:05] sdwilsh-afk [chatzilla@moz-DCFDE60C.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] is now known as sdwilsh [20:10:29] WeirdAl: wait...what? [20:10:30] biesi: hmm, that doesn't seem to work for me [20:10:46] it should... [20:10:51] oh [20:10:53] unless you have a libxul build [20:11:01] or unless you changed an interface, possibly [20:11:03] sdwilsh: well, if we can make the repetition model work for XUL, then I see it being very useful for XUL grids :) [20:11:31] WeirdAl: in theory, it /should/ work [20:11:31] -- by my code, I meant in that context my XUL projects [20:11:45] without much effort too since it is being written as a tearoff to nsGenericElement [20:11:49] WeirdAl is writing up some sample code to see if he understands it right [20:13:08] sdwilsh is amazed how many eyes do look at our code [20:13:08] dietrich [dietrich@moz-2760DD29.pdx.net] has quit IRC: Quit: dietrich [20:13:39] wtc [chatzilla@moz-9AE097E2.redhat.com] has quit IRC: Client exited [20:14:21] piratepenguin [declan@4B9AB5B9.73FF1B33.81E00CBF.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [20:14:54] aaronpau [chatzilla@moz-D01DF38C.ks.ok.cox.net] has joined #developers [20:14:54] WeirdAl sees an obscure reference to "button-repeat" at the end of button.xml [20:16:03] rginda [rginda@CA39FFCD.67E9D44.304D653D.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [20:16:51] sdwilsh needs to scroll up and see what else was said about the repetition model [20:19:47] <@bz_away> sdwilsh: people look at our code? [20:19:50] bz_away [bzbarsky@moz-6157A916.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] is now known as bz [20:20:07] <@bz> sdwilsh: is that why the incidence of insanity is increasing? [20:20:15] bz: apparently [20:20:33] this is odd...I fix the typo, but cvs diff doesn't pick anything up :( [20:20:37] it is wrong in lxr [20:22:24] josh [josh@moz-3628CCAA.mn.res.rr.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [20:24:44] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [20:24:46] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [20:24:51] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [20:27:08] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [20:27:08] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [20:27:13] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [20:27:27] can I get someone to check in the typo fix for Bug 205872? [20:27:31] Hixie, sdwilsh: can you please take a look at http://pastebin.mozilla.org/65 and see if I interpreted the repetition model correctly in this XUL example? [20:27:34] I reversed two letters in a dtd [20:27:58] why is repeat in the html namespace? [20:28:14] FakeMarkP [RealMarkP@moz-E17F119F.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #developers [20:28:19] sdwilsh: because the element isn't :) [20:28:41] repeat should be in the xul namespace according to spec [20:28:49] we had a lengthy discussion in here last night on why that's wrong... [20:29:03] WF2 section 3.2.1 [20:29:26] I'm looking at http://whatwg.org/specs/web-forms/current-work/#repetitiontype [20:29:30] the next paragraph [20:30:03] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: looks correct [20:30:17] Hixie: :( [20:30:17] orph [nobody@moz-12884C2C.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #developers [20:30:24] <@Hixie> though i'm worried sdwilsh misinterpreted the spec, that means the spec is poorly written [20:30:26] that isn't the conclusion that we came to last night here [20:30:32] <@bz> sdwilsh: we'd decided that hixie's text is unclear [20:30:34] <@Hixie> that's probably why bz was asking people to mail me :-) [20:30:35] there were several of us [20:30:42] <@bz> hixie: yep. sdwilsh was being confused [20:30:45] bz: yeah, I know [20:30:48] <@bz> hixie: And I was too. [20:30:52] sdwilsh is soooo lost [20:30:57] <@Hixie> what is the text that is confusing [20:30:59] <@Hixie> so i can fix it [20:30:59] hm, the way I read the spec, I'm actually correct in prefixing it with html:, though that was optional. [20:31:08] <@bz> hixie: sayrer eventually pointed out what you meant. Which reminds me that I had a question. [20:31:10] WeirdAl doesn't think it should be optional [20:31:16] <@bz> "The repeat attribute's namespace depends on the element node's namespace; if the element is in the http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml namespace then the attribute has no namespace, otherwise the attribute is in that namespace." [20:31:17] sdwilsh cries [20:31:36] <@bz> "that namespace" could mean "the element node's namespace" [20:31:53] bz: that sentence makes repeat behave like the xmlns attribute, in terms of namespacing: it does its own thing [20:32:12] <@bz> I think this section would make more sense to write this section as follows (which I said last night too): [20:32:14] -- a dangerous precedent to set for a common word [20:32:40] bz: I've been busy all day so I haven't gotten around to writing that e-mail yet :( [20:33:06] <@bz> "An attribute is a Web Forms 2 repeat attribute if it has the localname repeat and is either in the XHTML namespace or in the per-element namespace partition of an element which is in the XHTML namespace" [20:33:15] <@bz> Note that that's not quite identical to the behavior the spec currently has, btw. [20:33:40] <@bz> And that could cause problems... OK. so how about: [20:33:40] Mook [mook@AD525F85.4684FB8F.6E1B2F0B.IP] has joined #developers [20:33:41] per-element namespace partition? [20:33:52] <@bz> An attribute is a Web Forms 2 repeat attribute if it has the localname repeat and is: [20:33:56] sdwilsh wonders what per-element namespace partition means [20:33:57] <@bz> 1) In the xhtml namespace [20:33:58] <@bz> or [20:34:20] <@bz> 2) In no namespace and attached to an element in the xhtml namespace [20:34:22] <@bz> but not both." [20:34:38] bz: that was my original interpetion of the spec :) [20:34:38] <@bz> WeirdAl, sdwilsh: the place where prefix-less attributes live. [20:34:57] <@bz> hixie: am I making sense? [20:35:03] bz: makes sense to me [20:35:32] madewokherd [urk@moz-9EC98FA7.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [20:35:50] petea [petea@moz-B23F21FD.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit IRC: Quit: petea [20:35:57] but I personally object to where the repeat element is automatically in the XHTML namespace. [20:36:03] s/element/attribute [20:36:10] <@bz> WeirdAl: it's not. [20:36:20] WeirdAl: you have to specify it...otherwise it's not valid [20:36:23] <@bz> WeirdAl: please read my proposed spec text again. [20:36:32] bz: I read that, and I agree :) [20:36:36] rhelmer [robert@43CDFC52.3158155A.4D846E27.IP] is now known as rhelmer-afk [20:36:37] bz, but not both makes no sense to me [20:36:43] madewokherd [urk@moz-9EC98FA7.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #developers [20:36:50] bz: but that doesn't work for html [20:36:50] bz, because that is impossible [20:37:02] <@bz> biesi: er.... yes. [20:37:02] because you can't have the attribute namespaced [20:37:05] sdwilsh, html elements are in the xhtml namespace per hixie's spec [20:37:07] <@bz> biesi: What I _meant_ was.... [20:37:22] biesi: I was unaware of that... [20:37:23] <@bz> biesi: "In the xhtml namespace and attached to an element which is not in the xhtml namespace" [20:37:28] <@Hixie> bz: yeah... i'm making more drastic corrections to the spec to make this clearer. [20:37:31] <@bz> biesi: and nix the "and not both" part. [20:37:31] sdwilsh, they used to be so in mozilla too [20:37:43] bz, better :) [20:37:51] <@bz> biesi: thanks. [20:37:55] <@bz> hixie: sounds like a plan. ;) [20:37:56] sdwilsh, and dbaron wants to change back to that [20:38:00] bz goes back to debugging XBL [20:38:01] bz, np [20:38:03] bz: I'm referring to the third paragraph of WF2 section 7.13, which I think we were just talking about fixing [20:38:14] Hixie: what bz just said was how I originally interpeted it, but as per the irc conversation last night I was convinced it was different :( [20:38:34] biesi: that would make my life of implementing this so very much easier [20:38:44] biesi: otherwise I'll have to branch code for html :( [20:38:55] <@bz> sdwilsh: er... you have to no matter what, given this spec. [20:39:10] uh, ? [20:39:17] <@bz> sdwilsh: you don't care what the namespace is; just use IsContentOfType(eHTML) to test for HTML. [20:39:42] bz: but that's _a lot_ of branching just for html :( [20:40:01] WeirdAl thought both XHTML and HTML would match eHTML [20:40:05] I have to get and set attributes a lot...if I do that ever time :( [20:40:17] WeirdAl, that [20:40:18] WeirdAl, that's fine isn't it? [20:40:19] <@bz> if (IsNodeOfType(eHTML)) { GetAttr(kNameSpaceID_None, nsGkAtoms::repeat); } else { GetAttr(kNameSpaceID_HTML, nsGkAtoms::repeat); } [20:40:44] <@bz> sdwilsh: You could write an inline helper to get the right namespace, if you care... [20:40:45] biesi: perfectly [20:40:49] NeilZZZ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [20:40:56] bz: I can get atoms like that? That would help [20:41:05] <@bz> inline PRInt32 wf2NamespaceFor(nsIContent* node) { [20:41:15] bz: well, I did do that in the constructor, but it won't quite work right for html [20:41:23] <@bz> return node->IsNodeOfType(nsINode::eHTML) ? kNameSpaceID_None : kNameSpaceID_HTML; [20:41:24] <@bz> } [20:41:27] Hixie: hm, do you know someone who would take the repeat example I pastebin'd and post it somewhere as an example of a generic XML document using html:repeat attributes? :) [20:41:30] <@bz> Then [20:41:37] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: mail me [20:41:44] <@bz> GetAttr(wf2NamespaceFor(this), nsGkAtoms::repeat); [20:41:46] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: or ask me again in 10 minutes [20:41:58] I'll e-mail it to you as an attachment [20:41:59] <@bz> sdwilsh: what do you mean by "I can get atoms like that?" ? [20:42:19] bz: I've been using do_getAtom [20:42:19] piratepenguin [declan@85D24258.23559BD7.81E00CBF.IP] has joined #developers [20:42:29] nsGKAtoms::repeat would be a lot cleaner :) [20:42:35] and faster [20:42:42] <@bz> sdwilsh: oh. Perf nightmare. Don't bother, if all your code is in gklayout. Add your atom to nsGkAtomList.h [20:42:43] biesi: that too :) [20:42:58] sdwilsh learned something new [20:43:02] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #developers [20:43:11] <@bz> Tiny startup and memory overhead, big code readability and perf and reliability win [20:43:22] bz bets sdwilsh wasn't handling OOM for do_GetAtom, for example. [20:43:32] <@bz> Or were you? [20:43:40] Ok, so here's a question - what's better? Storing the namespace id once with the constructor, or calling a fucntion each time [20:43:48] bz: what do you mean OOM? [20:43:51] which class? [20:44:02] biesi: in my tearoff [20:44:09] ah [20:44:13] generally I'd call it each time [20:44:14] <@bz> swilsh: depends on the usage characteristics. [20:44:18] biesi doesn't like state [20:44:18] sdwilsh, out of memory [20:44:24] Camino: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.6.0 maya Depend Cm1.1-M1.8' has changed state from Burning to Success. [20:44:29] <@bz> sdwilsh: I'd call each time for now, until we see it as a perf bottleneck in profiles. [20:44:31] bz: then yes I was [20:44:38] > NS_ENSURE_TRUE(nameAtom, NS_ERROR_OUT_OF_MEMORY) [20:44:38] right? [20:44:44] <@bz> sdwilsh: yeah. impressive. :) [20:44:58] <@bz> sdwilsh: most consumers of do_GetAtom forget this part. [20:44:59] bz: I looked at other code to see how to do it right [20:45:12] apparently I looked at the right code [20:45:33] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: i'm gonna use SVG and put the example in the spec [20:45:46] Hixie: another test case then with it too? [20:45:53] Hixie: that's fair. But I'll keep my XUL example so we can have a chrome testcase ;) [20:45:56] brb... [20:45:58] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: sure [20:46:00] <@Hixie> sdwilsh: ? [20:46:19] bz hates XBL [20:46:22] brendan [brendaneic@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] has quit IRC: Quit: brendan [20:46:28] <@Hixie> bz: HTML5 baby. [20:46:30] bz: oh, what now? :( [20:46:58] WeirdAl also wonders when bz plans on finishing the nsExpatDriver error reporting sr [20:46:59] bz: just don't kill it in themes, we kinda need it now :) [20:47:21] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] is now known as NeilZZZ [20:48:12] <@bz> WeirdAl: the usual thing [20:48:48] <@bz> WeirdAl: I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you. ;) [20:49:00] <@bz> anyone know how I can tell apart the global window? [20:49:08] <@bz> er, the hidden window [20:49:17] <@bz> given the nsGlobalWindow* or equivalent [20:50:53] sayrer [chatzilla@moz-D9DB9F78.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #developers [20:50:55] pamg [pamg@moz-CD91E596.google.com] has quit IRC: Quit: pamg [20:50:56] Hixie: on testsuit.org or whatever it is...there are only test cases for the repetition model in html [20:51:08] <@Hixie> sdwilsh: that's anne's site [20:51:16] Oh...my bad [20:51:19] <@Hixie> sdwilsh: so speak to anne :-) [20:51:29] sdwilsh has no clue who that is :p [20:51:37] <@Hixie> anne van kesteren [20:51:51] <@Hixie> he's writing the xmlhttprequest spec, etc [20:51:57] bz: document URI? [20:52:16] <@bz> mrbkap: oh. Duh. [20:52:24] <@bz> mrbkap: I thought it would be about:blank, but it's not. [20:52:45] <@bz> mrbkap: ok, so question for you. When would an event handler be trying to execute on the cx of the hidden window? :( [20:53:14] biesi: so HTML is not treated as XHTML right now, correct? [20:53:29] <@bz> sdwilsh: define "treated"? [20:53:32] huh [20:53:41] the namespaceID [20:53:44] right [20:53:52] <@bz> sdwilsh: correct. HTML has kNameSpaceID_None [20:53:56] but [20:53:58] so HTML is in kNameSpaceID_None [20:54:01] right..thanks bz [20:54:07] you shouldn't require the repeat attr to be in the html namespace in html [20:54:07] <@bz> sdwilsh: we have considered changing this [20:54:16] because that does so not match the spirit of the spec [20:54:18] <@bz> sdwilsh: Note that kNameSpaceID_None does not mean HTML [20:54:22] bz: If someone's trying to add an event listener to the hidden window? [20:54:23] biesi: :( [20:54:40] he? [20:54:56] soooo...is there a good way to test if it's HTML? [20:55:00] <@bz> sdwilsh: is there a reason you're not using the IsNodeOfType check I said to use? [20:55:05] sdwilsh, yes, didn't bz describe that already? [20:55:08] bz wonders why he bothered to type all that up... [20:55:23] bz: I'm just trying to quickly adapt my code for now...didn't want to trash everything he had yet :( [20:55:30] s/he/I/ [20:55:36] <@bz> sdwilsh: ah, ok. ;) [20:55:47] sdwilsh is scared that I'm talking in the third person [20:55:49] piratepenguin [declan@85D24258.23559BD7.81E00CBF.IP] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [20:56:14] bz: looks like that's the easiest way though [20:56:17] sdwilsh scolls up [20:56:46] gavin [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [20:59:07] would you look at that...I can adapt my code easily and use bz's code. Thanks bz! [21:00:19] <@bz> no problem [21:01:46] Hixie: uh, the version of WF2 in svn.whatwg.org doesn't match the www.whatwg.org version; two day difference :*( [21:01:47] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [21:02:05] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@5E12EA1A.1AFA5C43.5DC06702.IP] has joined #developers [21:02:11] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@5E12EA1A.1AFA5C43.5DC06702.IP] is now known as plasticmillion [21:02:14] gavin [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #developers [21:02:24] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: really? [21:02:27] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: will fix asap [21:02:58] WeirdAl wants to see Hixie's changes ;) [21:03:11] WeirdAl: there's a repo? [21:03:11] plasticmillion [chatzilla@5E12EA1A.1AFA5C43.5DC06702.IP] is now known as IRCMonkey5270541 [21:03:18] <@Hixie> there are two [21:03:24] <@Hixie> svn.whatwg.org and dev.w3.org [21:03:26] sdwilsh finds this interesting [21:03:29] <@Hixie> both should be in sync [21:03:34] svn, right? [21:03:49] looks like dev.w3.org is cvs [21:03:53] <@Hixie> svn.whatwg.org uses subversion and dev.w3.org uses cvs [21:05:01] <@Hixie> ok WeirdAl, svn is synced [21:05:04] thanks [21:05:20] <@Hixie> and cvs too [21:05:37] <@Hixie> spec now has an example with SVG repetition [21:05:37] <@Hixie> and should be clearer wrt namespaces [21:05:41] <@Hixie> or at least more accurate [21:05:56] <@Hixie> going for dinner, let me know if it's still problematic [21:06:38] josh [josh@moz-3628CCAA.mn.res.rr.com] has joined #developers [21:07:25] <@bz> No struct type named nsJSContest. [21:07:33] bz wants gdb to read his mind. :( [21:07:52] preed [preed@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] is now known as preed-afk [21:12:26] if I were to pass nsGkAtoms::repeat to a function, what type would it be? [21:13:50] anyone? [21:13:57] nsIAtom* [21:14:07] mrbkap: thanks :) [21:15:02] Hixie: 3.1.5 doesn't agree with the RepetitionElement definition in Chapter 7 [21:15:15] piratepenguin [declan@moz-471C14E8.bas504.dsl.esat.net] has joined #developers [21:15:39] (3.1.5 passes in a number where a node is expected) [21:16:26] josh [josh@moz-3628CCAA.mn.res.rr.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [21:19:48] WeirdAl: we'll see how this works [21:19:57] right [21:20:34] WeirdAl: and by that, I mean my code as I wait for it to compile [21:20:46] anyone know how to get http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/layout/forms/resources/ built? [21:20:49] we don't need to disable libxul yet do we? [21:21:24] WeirdAl: that's not part of teir_9? [21:21:31] nope, it's not built at all [21:21:58] it *looks* like dead code, but dead code we could resurrect for WF2 [21:22:52] <@bz> It's XBL form controls code [21:22:54] stephend|bbiab [stephend@moz-40449CC1.sbndin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit IRC: Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- 100,000+ downloads can't be wrong [21:22:55] <@bz> and yes, it's dead [21:23:14] bz: that's what I thought. People are still doing checkins to it ;) [21:23:32] but if WF2 could bring it back to life... [21:24:11] WeirdAl: what's the verdict on that XTF stuff? [21:24:33] sdwilsh: much too soon to tell, on _any_ of the design doc [21:24:42] that's what I was afriad of [21:24:43] I added the XTF stuff smaug suggested; I think it's a great idea [21:24:48] it /looks/ promising [21:24:51] wgianopoulos [chatzilla@moz-7A06A043.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #developers [21:24:57] sdwilsh: we've got to give people a few days to respond. [21:25:35] sdwilsh wants instant feedback :p [21:25:45] after that, maybe we'll be invited to a conference call for MoCo to discuss next steps [21:25:50] who knows? [21:25:55] woah [21:26:02] hey, I want instant feedback too [21:26:12] and to think....I just started doing this stuff like 1-2 months ago [21:26:35] I'm having to counsel patience not only to you, but to myself :) [21:26:36] dria [dria@moz-B7FD1F7E.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [21:26:39] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [21:26:44] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [21:26:45] IRCMonkey5270541 [chatzilla@5E12EA1A.1AFA5C43.5DC06702.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [21:26:53] if we could be impatient, 1.9 would be the goal ;) [21:27:06] dria [dria@moz-B7FD1F7E.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #developers [21:27:15] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [21:27:30] 1.9 would rock [21:27:33] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [21:27:38] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [21:27:53] sdwilsh: but for us to pull that off, it has to be a dedicated team effort, not just you and me [21:27:58] sdwilsh wishes tier_9 was like the DOMI in build time [21:28:03] :-p [21:28:38] Instant compile times! [21:28:38] SeaMonkey: 'Linux comet Depend release' has changed state from Success to Test Failed. [21:29:00] sdwilsh: fwiw, I'm only a few hours away from Mountain View, so if I had to go to the hq to attend a planning meeting, I could [21:29:00] dbaron [dbaron@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] has quit IRC: Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global. [21:29:39] <@stuart> sdwilsh: who are you? [21:29:49] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [21:29:51] stuart: he's a relatively new face around here :) [21:29:54] stuart: I ask myself that every day [21:30:04] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [21:30:09] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [21:30:12] stuart: and if you were being serious, I'm fairly new as WeirdAl said [21:30:20] philor [ringnalda@moz-7ADECB8D.eug.or.uspops.net] has joined #developers [21:30:37] A1kmm [A4kmm@moz-9F5720C.auckland.ac.nz] has quit IRC: Client exited [21:30:39] but I sure won't fault him for his enthusiasm [21:31:20] sdwilsh: mind if I tell word about you, so stuart doesn't have to ask again? [21:31:26] go for it [21:31:35] I live a fairly public life :) [21:31:42] hm, what should word know about you? [21:32:48] Well, lets see. I'm a computer science engineering student attending the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, MI. I'll be going into my junior year this fall [21:33:40] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [21:34:40] anyone notice that 1px table borders can come and go on reload? try it on https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=234343 , where at times they're all there, but many times not [21:38:19] MrMazda: I don't see it on 1.5 [21:38:50] sdwilsh: I see it on linux trunk and OS/2 branch [21:39:02] I'll check windows trunk [21:39:02] it's a random thing [21:39:16] wait..I can't...I'm building it right now :( [21:39:26] sdwilsh: I also see it on win32 trunk [21:39:35] today's SM [21:40:19] WeirdAl heads off for dinner [21:42:43] SeaMonkey: 'Linux comet Depend release' has changed state from Test Failed to Success. [21:42:43] myk [chatzilla@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [21:45:41] <@Hixie> oh? [21:49:01] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [21:49:06] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [21:49:07] schrep [schrep@moz-46636307.office.mozilla.org] has quit IRC: Client exited [21:50:09] biesi [cbiesinger@moz-CD91E596.google.com] is now known as biesi-away [21:51:46] gaoming [chatzilla@41233EAD.BD1919A0.787F53A6.IP] has joined #developers [21:52:43] gandalf [e-gand@moz-F4D8EEE3.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [21:53:39] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [21:53:57] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [21:54:05] plasticmillion_ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [21:54:43] Hixie: got a few minutes? [21:55:22] <@Hixie> yes but hang on [21:55:29] sdwilsh notes that this may be better suited to do in the whatwg mailing list [21:56:03] timeless: ping [21:56:28] ispiked: for his sake, I hope he's like asleep. He doesn't get enough :) ### Log session terminated at Thu Aug 17 22:15:34 2006 ### ### Log session started at Thu Aug 17 22:15:53 2006 ### [22:15:53] db48x [db48x@moz-A16BC840.sub-70-196-155.myvzw.com] has joined #developers [22:15:53] Channel topic is: cvs.mozilla.org down from 4 to 4:15PST today || Use the new pastebin at http://pastebin.mozilla.org || http://landfill.mozilla.org/mxr-test || Crop circle complete || http://wiki.mozilla.org/DOM:Web_Forms_2.0 for Gecko design and approach - please read and offer feedback | I think we are god for n [22:15:53] Topic was set by mcsmurf!*@* on Thu Aug 17 17:28:54 2006 [22:16:00] sand.mozilla.org [*@*] has set channel mode +snr [22:16:00] Channel was created at Thu Aug 10 23:24:33 2006 [22:16:03] Channel synchronized in 10.161 seconds [22:16:24] Hixie: those repetition blocks that aren't siblings of the parent are also giving me problems for the repetitionBlocks property [22:17:25] Hixie: and lastly (I promise), why do we even allow a user to set the repetition index for templates? [22:18:14] Neil_ [neil@805FBB74.43DBE11A.6FB37ABF.IP] has joined #developers [22:18:36] <@Hixie> sdwilsh: in reply to the first point, yeah, let me look at that (maybe it should only look at siblings of the template) [22:18:47] Neil_ [neil@805FBB74.43DBE11A.6FB37ABF.IP] is now known as NeilZZZ [22:19:03] <@Hixie> sdwilsh: in answer to the second, it's for the case where the author (not the user) wants to reset the form and start over with the index at 0 (or 1 or whatever) [22:20:44] but, wouldn't removing all the repetition blocks accomplish that - and if setting it to 0, it would go back up to whatever the right value is unless they removed them anyway [22:21:08] aaronpau [chatzilla@moz-D01DF38C.ks.ok.cox.net] has quit IRC: Client exited [22:21:48] <@Hixie> no, removing a repetition block doesn't change the index value [22:22:11] <@Hixie> if it did, you could end up really confusing scripts, since you'd reuse repetition block index values [22:22:23] Hixie: but it would update it next time the template added something, no? [22:22:45] <@Hixie> the addition algorithm never takes the number down [22:22:45] redfive [redfive@moz-98C3E399.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.2/0000000000] [22:22:45] <@Hixie> only up [22:22:46] <@Hixie> to avoid index reuse [22:23:17] but, if they remove a block, set the index to 0 (or something lower than it is), you would be reusing an index, correct? [22:23:31] sdwilsh thinks he sees why finally [22:23:39] <@Hixie> yes, but one must assume that if they're setting the index to 0, it's because they want to reuse that index :-) [22:24:02] Ok, I finally understand _why_ that's like that. It really didn't make any sense to me [22:24:26] I just knew that it seemed to make a lot more work for me with no benefit :) [22:24:36] Hixie: thanks for the clarification on that :) [22:24:48] jlurz [chatzilla@moz-3D6A6E92.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #developers [22:25:15] <@Hixie> :-) [22:25:27] dt [darktemple@227A2DA3.9A569128.47BCF416.IP] has joined #developers [22:26:09] <@bz> anyone know why a Windows build would die in security/coreconf? [22:26:25] <@Hixie> sdwilsh: yeah, repetitionBlocks is going to only count siblings. (that's what opera did anyway) [22:26:29] <@bz> "target 'c' does not match the target pattern" [22:26:40] Hixie: oh sweet. That makes things so very much easier [22:27:01] <@dveditz> that sounds vaguely familiar [22:27:03] schrep [schrep@moz-7542B0EB.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #developers [22:27:09] bz tries clobbering [22:27:10] <@dveditz> bz: do you have an appropriate version of make? [22:27:26] <@bz> dveditz: dunno. What's appropriate, and how do I tell what version I have? [22:27:27] that make bug is annoying [22:27:28] <@dveditz> there were some that didn't work [22:27:36] the newest one doesn't owrk [22:27:39] <@bz> I have GNUM Make 3.81.... [22:27:44] <@bz> er, GNU Make [22:27:53] <@dveditz> I think it was 3.81 that was bad [22:27:54] isn't that the broken one? [22:28:02] <@dveditz> try down revving to 3.80 [22:28:08] <@bz> I see [22:28:09] <@bz> ok [22:28:10] <@dveditz> that's what I'm using and it works [22:28:15] <@dveditz> I think I had to do that [22:28:17] bz sends mail to the guy who can actually do that [22:28:25] 3.80 is what I'm using as well [22:28:26] <@dveditz> cygwin, right? [22:28:27] <@Hixie> sdwilsh: spec updated. [22:28:35] Hixie: thanks :) [22:28:39] <@bz> ah, wait [22:28:42] <@dveditz> you just run the setup and there's an option to get a lower version [22:28:42] I might be able to code that function now [22:28:43] <@bz> gmake is a lower version [22:28:43] <@Hixie> np :-) [22:28:45] bz tries that [22:29:04] sdwilsh cheers [22:29:04] <@bz> nope [22:29:04] <@bz> that _really_ fails [22:29:11] I pass the repetitionType test! [22:30:20] ispiked: pong [22:30:30] <@Hixie> :-) [22:30:37] <@Hixie> i sure hope the tests are all correct :-P [22:31:04] Hixie: they look it (I looked when trying to figure out why my code didn't work - that started the namespace debate) [22:31:15] <@Hixie> heh [22:31:18] <@Hixie> they probably are [22:31:21] <@Hixie> but i haven't checked :-) [22:31:33] <@Hixie> don't assume they are if you disagree with them :-) [22:31:40] Hixie: so opera already implemented all this, correct? [22:31:40] mwu [mikew@moz-A8CDE328.office.mozilla.org] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [22:31:58] <@Hixie> sdwilsh: they have an initial implementation in Opera 9, but i don't know how good it is [22:32:01] Hixie: gotcha [22:32:27] then if we can fix up dean edwards code for it in ie, this could be useable :) [22:32:42] <@Hixie> :-) [22:34:25] so was there a change made for the repeat attribute confusion? [22:34:42] <@Hixie> yeah [22:34:42] <@Hixie> quite a big one :-) [22:35:06] bz: yeah, 3.81 sucks [22:35:38] Hixie: change notes? [22:35:55] sayrer: svn diff on the repo... [22:36:04] <@Hixie> sayrer: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/html5/web-forms-2/Overview.html.diff?r1=1.7&r2=1.8&f=h [22:36:36] any spidermonkey gurus around? [22:36:36] <@Hixie> actually [22:36:38] <@Hixie> make that http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/html5/web-forms-2/Overview.html.diff?r1=1.7&r2=1.9&f=h [22:37:03] New build added to Firefox: Linux balsa-trunk Depend GTK1 (gcc 3.4) (status: Burning). [22:37:17] dietrich [dietrich@B6C469E7.10DA35A7.E2CA354A.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: dietrich [22:37:41] Hixie: you know it would be really useful if all the headings provided a link to themselves :) [22:37:50] <@Hixie> heh [22:37:52] I know the anchors are there, but I don't know the format [22:38:01] biesi [chb@sjs-130-65-240-7.sjsu.edu] has joined #developers [22:38:02] and looking it up every time really sucks [22:38:07] <@Hixie> just use the table of contents :-P [22:38:12] Hixies: so is not allowed? [22:38:18] Hixie: but then I lose my spot :) [22:38:28] <@Hixie> sayrer: it doesn't do anything, if that's what you mean [22:38:42] <@Hixie> sdwilsh: but when you click on the header, you'll jump straight back to your spot :-) [22:38:51] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [22:38:52] Hixie: bz wanted to make it do something [22:38:54] <@bz> iiinteresting [22:38:57] <@Hixie> sdwilsh: or get an extension that highlights everything with an ID or something [22:39:06] <@Hixie> sayrer: yeah we sorted it out [22:39:09] Hixie: I have that, but it kinda shifts everything [22:39:10] k [22:39:10] <@Hixie> sayrer: it doesn't do anything [22:39:33] what is the reasoning? just wondering. [22:39:44] <@bz> sayrer: my reasoning was.. [22:39:53] <@bz> sayrer: [22:39:56] <@bz> sayrer: now what? [22:39:59] <@Hixie> sayrer: what would you do if you had ? [22:40:00] <@Hixie> uh [22:40:01] <@Hixie> what bz said [22:40:04] <@Hixie> exactly what bz said. [22:40:18] bz is glad hixie and he think on the same wavelength [22:40:20] <@bz> hmm [22:40:22] <@Hixie> :-) [22:40:28] <@bz> Hixie: so I have the numbers on your testcases... [22:40:37] <@Hixie> yeah? [22:40:48] dietrich [dietrich@B6C469E7.10DA35A7.E2CA354A.IP] has joined #developers [22:40:49] <@bz> Trunk: [22:40:49] <@bz> images: 32379 [22:40:49] <@bz> no images: 29045 [22:40:49] <@bz> Reflow branch: [22:40:49] <@bz> images: 25194 [22:40:49] <@bz> no images: 15233 [22:40:49] <@bz> Opera 8.5: [22:40:49] <@bz> images: 12936 [22:40:49] <@bz> no images: 10696 [22:41:06] <@Hixie> step in the right direction! [22:41:08] <@bz> indeed. [22:41:18] <@Hixie> wonder what safari would get [22:41:18] bz: is that time? [22:41:23] <@Hixie> probably: [22:41:24] <@bz> sdwilsh: in ms, yeah [22:41:30] <@Hixie> images: 139 [22:41:34] <@bz> Hixie: I can test Safari... but an old one. [22:41:35] <@Hixie> no images: 90 [22:41:39] bz: why are we that slow compared to opera on trunk [22:41:46] <@bz> sdwilsh: par for the course. [22:41:46] wait...I think I know... [22:41:53] really? [22:41:54] <@bz> sdwilsh: generally speaking. [22:41:57] <@bz> sdwilsh: yeah [22:42:13] <@bz> sdwilsh: you should look at the DHTML times. I get happy when we're within a factor of 1.5. :( [22:42:22] bz: the difference from trunk and branch is Cairo right? [22:42:31] <@Hixie> bz: yeah you'd want to test a trunk safari, they've mad massive improvements recently as i understand it [22:42:31] poningru [poningru@moz-21E2857A.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [22:42:34] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@5E12EA1A.1AFA5C43.5DC06702.IP] has joined #developers [22:42:34] <@bz> swilsh: no, both trunk and branch are not cairo [22:42:41] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@5E12EA1A.1AFA5C43.5DC06702.IP] is now known as plasticmillion [22:42:42] <@bz> sdwilsh: if you want cairo numbers, one sec [22:43:01] <@bz> Though I only have trunk cairo [22:43:08] <@bz> so it'll be a little skewed [22:43:13] I thought trunk was cairo by default [22:43:15] <@bz> I think reflow branch helps cairo more [22:43:20] <@bz> yeah, but this is my build [22:43:29] <@bz> all the builds compiled with identical compiler options [22:43:32] <@bz> except for cairo [22:43:39] ah [22:43:39] <@bz> which is identical modulo cairo [22:43:43] NeilZZZ [neil@805FBB74.43DBE11A.6FB37ABF.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [22:43:43] plasticmillion [chatzilla@5E12EA1A.1AFA5C43.5DC06702.IP] is now known as IRCMonkey5270542 [22:43:49] <@Hixie> i'm gonna bet with cairo you get 100492 and 87914 respectively [22:44:00] <@bz> mmmm [22:44:05] <@bz> I'd guess less than that [22:44:11] <@bz> More like 60000 and 50000 [22:44:13] <@Hixie> 100491? [22:44:14] Hixie: that's /really/ slow [22:44:15] <@bz> but I could be wring! [22:44:18] <@bz> er, wrong [22:44:18] dang. namespaces are gross. [22:44:28] sayrer: yup! [22:44:36] stephend [stephend@moz-40449CC1.sbndin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #developers [22:44:36] <@Hixie> sayrer: now you know why i go out of my way to avoid them in every spec :-) [22:44:39] robc_afk [rcampbell@moz-B7FD1F7E.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] is now known as robcee [22:45:36] Hixie: thankfully you can use JSON these days if you don't need mixed content [22:45:44] <@bz> Trunk Cairo: [22:45:44] <@bz> images: 53998 [22:45:44] <@bz> no images: 39557 [22:45:45] Hixie: it could be useful to use bz's namespace example in the examples of valid and not valid templates [22:45:53] <@bz> Not as bad as I thought! [22:45:59] <@Hixie> jesus christ [22:46:01] <@Hixie> that's terrible [22:46:04] <@bz> yeah [22:46:05] IRCMonkey5270542 [chatzilla@5E12EA1A.1AFA5C43.5DC06702.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [22:46:07] <@bz> I'm on Linux [22:46:11] <@bz> I hear it's not as bad on Windows [22:46:13] so, when will cairo get faster? [22:46:26] <@bz> sdwilsh: once roc lands [22:46:27] and why are we using it again? :p [22:46:33] roc? [22:46:39] <@bz> sdwilsh: we're using it because we want to antialias shit? ;) [22:46:45] hahaha [22:46:50] <@bz> sdwilsh: because we don't want to maintain 4 different rendering back ends? [22:46:51] oh, bz [22:46:55] <@bz> sdwilsh: because we want PDF printing? [22:46:58] bz: got time for a JS_Class crasher? [22:46:59] <@Hixie> i think we're using it because we want to antialias _like_ shit [22:47:04] <@bz> sdwilsh: because we want better opacity support? [22:47:11] bz: sorry...that last one was sarcasm [22:47:14] I know why :) [22:47:14] brendan suggested you might be of assistance [22:47:17] <@bz> sdwilsh: there are several reasons, but perf wasn't one of them. ;) [22:47:22] <@bz> stephend: bug#? [22:47:28] <@bz> For what it's worth.... [22:47:32] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [22:47:36] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=349023 [22:47:38] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [22:47:39] <@bz> if roc's stuff works, we might get back a lot of the perf. [22:47:44] <@Hixie> cool [22:47:45] <@bz> But the second problem on Linux is we're using pango [22:47:47] poningru [poningru@moz-21E2857A.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #developers [22:47:48] <@bz> in addition to cairo [22:47:55] <@Hixie> would roc's stuff work without cairo? [22:47:55] note that the crasher seems different on minefield vs seamonkey trunk [22:48:01] <@bz> Although maybe not in this case [22:48:05] bz: do you know roc's bug num? [22:48:16] <@bz> hixie: no, it depends on working closer to the metal in terms of the rendering stuff [22:48:26] <@Hixie> bz: interesting, ok [22:48:27] <@bz> hixie: as in, it relies on the unified cross-platform rendering arch [22:48:31] <@Hixie> cool [22:48:49] <@bz> hixie: right now we have more abstraction layers than we used to; we're removing some so we're back to where we used to be... [22:48:58] <@bz> sdwilsh: not offhand. Search for "textframe" ? [22:49:20] <@bz> Hixie: btw, I dunno whether you saw the reflow branch numbers for the mysql manual... ;) [22:49:27] <@bz> hixie: those are the impressive ones. ;) [22:49:39] <@Hixie> bz: heh [22:49:59] <@Hixie> bz: you can use the HTML5 spec as a benchmark if you like, i load that every day and cairo is REALLY FUCKING SLOW with it :-) [22:50:03] <@bz> hixie: rendering page as XHTML (not incremental): 53s on trunk, 54 on branch. [22:50:08] <@Hixie> (that's the technical terminology) [22:50:10] bz, what testcase are those numbers from? [22:50:17] <@bz> hixie: rendering as HTML (incremental): 600s on trunk, 55 on branch. [22:50:22] <@Hixie> heh [22:50:23] <@Hixie> nice! [22:50:26] <@bz> hixie: this is the mysql manual as a single page. [22:50:39] <@bz> biesi: the ones I was just pasting? Bug [22:50:40] <@bz> 64858 [22:50:46] <@bz> biesi: I'll attach the testcases there. [22:50:46] <@Hixie> is this dbaron's vertical-inc-reflow optimisations? [22:51:01] <@bz> Hixie: and "compute horizontal widths per spec" [22:51:11] <@bz> with the whole intrinsic width business [22:51:28] <@Hixie> right [22:51:41] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #developers [22:51:44] <@bz> stephend: JavaScript error: , line 0: uncaught exception: [object StopIteration] [22:51:50] <@bz> stephend: is that expected? [22:52:06] see, in seamonkey trunk on windows, I just crash [22:52:07] <@bz> biesi: I'll profile why the images version is so much slower, btw... [22:52:15] but minefield prints just "0" [22:52:18] <@bz> stephend: huh. I'm using seamonkey pretty close to trunk on Linux.... [22:52:26] <@bz> stephend: yeah, that's what I see. One sec. [22:52:27] "pretty close?" ;-) [22:52:31] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [22:52:36] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [22:52:42] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [22:52:50] <@bz> stephend: pulled 2-3 days back [22:52:54] I used the 17-08 build [22:52:57] <@bz> stephend: and with some local changes [22:53:20] <@bz> lemme try the trunk nightly from this morning [22:53:43] how do I check my minefield build _hour_? [22:53:59] <@bz> 0 [22:53:59] <@bz> no crash [22:54:01] stephend: you could look at timestamps :) [22:54:06] <@bz> 08-17-01 trunk build [22:54:09] <@bz> seamonkey, linux [22:54:20] <@bz> lemme try something else [22:54:22] sigh; why does my build crash? [22:55:05] stephend: when, exactly, is your checkout from? [22:55:12] it's not a checkout [22:55:17] <@bz> stephend: this is on http://www.jasnapaka.com/mozilla/testcases/js-1.7-iterator-crash.html ? [22:55:31] bz: yeah [22:55:35] sayrer, nightly builds, trunk [22:55:43] minefield is ok, seamonkey instantly tanks [22:55:51] bz settles in to wait [22:56:10] <@bz> eventually the browser will start... then we shall see [22:56:14] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [22:56:18] heh [22:56:48] if only I actually _had_ debug [22:56:48] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [22:56:54] I should set that up at some point again... [22:56:55] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [22:57:06] bz wishes this just started _faster_ [22:57:24] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [22:57:24] hrm [22:57:29] I wonder if we optimize differently in seamonkey/firefox [22:57:34] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [22:57:35] are partial checkins frowned upon? [22:57:40] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [22:57:42] ? [22:57:47] bz, how does allowSubframes work? [22:57:51] partial landings* [22:58:09] different targets, different cygwin wrappers [22:58:12] like, the code works but the spec isn't fully implemented yet [22:58:15] bz, it seems to do some strange things in the content sink [22:58:23] <@bz> sdwilsh: that's between you and the reviewers [22:58:25] sdwilsh: bite-sized pieces are nice [22:58:25] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [22:58:34] <@bz> biesi: allowSubFrames affects parsing of .... [22:58:36] <biesi> bz, and sspitzer tells me it breaks webprogresslisteners somewhat [22:58:37] <sdwilsh> I see [22:58:43] <@bz> biesi: amongst other things [22:58:44] <stephend> I wonder if this is a MSVC 6.0-induced bug? [22:58:50] <stephend> since minefield builds on what, 8? [22:58:50] <sayrer> stephend: this could be bug 336379 [22:59:06] <sdwilsh> This is such a massive spec, and I know a lot of WF2 stuff uses it [22:59:06] bz finally has 6 domwindows [22:59:06] <sayrer> stephend: what date is your build? [22:59:15] <stephend> seamonkey? [22:59:28] <sdwilsh> and by spec I mean patch [22:59:34] <stephend> 2006-08-17-08 [22:59:48] <sayrer> so that means it was built at midnight? [22:59:56] <sayrer> almost 24 hrs ago? [23:00:08] <@bz> er... [23:00:12] <stephend> no [23:00:17] <stephend> 8am today [23:00:17] <@bz> 08 would normally mean 8am pacific [23:00:19] <stephend> pdt, right? [23:00:21] <stephend> yeah [23:00:24] sayrer never uses nightlies [23:00:25] <stephend> so [23:00:26] <sayrer> oh duh [23:00:43] <biesi> bz, well, I meant more like, how does it do the actual frame disabling [23:00:43] <@bz> well, I have bad news [23:00:44] <@bz> I started [23:00:47] <@bz> I get 0 [23:00:48] <@bz> and the JS exception [23:00:50] <@bz> and no crash. [23:00:53] <sdwilsh> Hixie: who do I complain to about those test cases? I think I found a bug in one [23:00:59] <stephend> not sure that's "bad" news ;-) [23:01:01] <@bz> This is with WAY_TOO_MUCH_GC now [23:01:02] <stephend> just different [23:01:02] petea [petea@moz-ECB0F011.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com] has joined #developers [23:01:45] <@bz> I suppose I can try updating to tip. Gimme some time. [23:01:49] <stephend> I'm going to grab a 17-20 tbox build [23:01:59] <stephend> should've done that way earlier [23:02:46] petea [petea@moz-ECB0F011.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [23:02:49] <sayrer> hmm, brendan has a jsiter.c checkin since your build [23:02:57] <stephend> ah [23:03:01] petea [petea@moz-ECB0F011.c3-0.sfrn-ubr8.sfrn.ca.cable.rcn.com] has joined #developers [23:03:01] <@Hixie> sdwilsh: anne van kesteren [23:03:08] <stephend> ...which the minefield build likely picked up [23:03:25] <sdwilsh> Hixie: would you know of an e-mail address, or would google find it for me? [23:03:37] <@bz> firebot, anne? [23:03:38] <firebot> bz: anne is Anne van Kesteren, Markup and Style guru extraordinaire! bugmail: bug@annevankesteren.nl [23:04:09] <@Hixie> "Markup and Style guru extraordinaire" lol [23:04:12] <sayrer> extraordinaire! [23:04:26] <sdwilsh> works for opera? [23:04:30] <@Hixie> yes [23:04:51] <@bz> some of the descriptions are ... wacky [23:04:55] <@bz> and some are out of date [23:05:04] <@bz> I haven't done serious triage in years, for example... [23:05:06] <@vlad> preed-afk: ping [23:05:07] <@bz> firebot, bz? [23:05:08] <firebot> bz: iirc, you are Boris Zbarsky mailto:bzbarsky@mit.edu an expert triager or http://web.mit.edu/bzbarsky/www/ or mailto:bz@mit.edu [23:05:14] bz shrugs [23:05:15] <biesi> heh [23:05:18] <@Hixie> firebot: who am i? [23:05:20] <firebot> Hixie: hmm... I think you are Ian Hickson, mailto:ian@hixie.ch - standards compliance QA type person. <Hixie> I'm from the moon [23:05:21] <bhearsum> bz: make 3.80 is installed now [23:05:29] <@bz> bhearsum: thanks! [23:05:29] <@Hixie> yeah it's pretty out of date :-P [23:05:32] <biesi> I like it how bz's description does not include anything resembling "developer" [23:05:34] <bhearsum> np [23:05:44] <stephend> so [23:05:55] <stephend> the latest seamonkey trunk build also crashes [23:06:14] <reed> bz is a developer? I would have never guessed. [23:06:16] <reed> ;) [23:06:24] madewokherd [urk@moz-9EC98FA7.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Quit: restarting client for changes to core parts of it to take effect [23:06:57] <@bz> sicking's talks about TransforMiiX [23:06:58] <@bz> etc [23:07:05] madewokherd [urk@moz-148F0076.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #developers [23:07:06] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #developers [23:07:22] ssieb_roam [ssieb@moz-94BCB728.vs.shawcable.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.73 [SeaMonkey 1.5a/0000000000] [23:07:29] <@bz> anyway [23:07:32] <@bz> it's reading time. ;) [23:07:34] bz [bzbarsky@moz-6157A916.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] is now known as bz_away [23:08:13] Neil_ [neil@moz-228E8524.lutn.cable.ntl.com] is now known as NeilZZZ [23:08:54] poningru [poningru@moz-21E2857A.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [23:10:48] gavin [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [23:11:01] sdwilsh laughs at how long this diff is taking [23:11:04] gavin [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #developers [23:11:16] Hixie adds yet another example to XBL [23:12:29] <sdwilsh> anyone mind if I update the topic and remove the cvs stuff since it's past that? [23:13:06] sp3000 [chatzilla@moz-307F712F.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #developers [23:13:15] <reed> sdwilsh: go ahead [23:13:44] sdwilsh [chatzilla@moz-DCFDE60C.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has changed topic to "Use the new pastebin at http://pastebin.mozilla.org | http://landfill.mozilla.org/mxr-test | Crop circle complete | http://wiki.mozilla.org/DOM:Web_Forms_2.0 for Gecko design and approach - please read and offer feedback | <schrep> I think we are god for now" [23:13:51] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [23:14:07] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [23:14:10] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [23:14:27] <crowder> nice quote from schrep [23:14:49] <WeirdAl> hey crowder :) [23:14:51] <sdwilsh> WeirdAl: I think it might be easier to use js instead of modifying the parser for the repetition stuff [23:14:56] <crowder> Heya, Al [23:14:59] <sdwilsh> woah...he's back [23:15:03] <@vlad> anyone know if it's possible to use vmware for kernel-level debugging? [23:15:08] <@vlad> that is I want to pause the vm and get a register dump, say [23:15:09] <WeirdAl> sdwilsh: eh? [23:15:27] <sdwilsh> WeirdAl: I could just generate all the template stuff on DOMContent loaded [23:15:37] <@vlad> or better yet, get a register dump just before a cpu reset =/ [23:15:39] <sdwilsh> instead of having the parser do the work [23:15:46] <sayrer> stephend: bug 349028. well, well. [23:15:51] <crowder> vlad, isn't that what user-mode linux is for? [23:15:51] <WeirdAl> but where's JS enter into this? [23:16:29] <@vlad> crowder: yeah, i'm on a win32 host though, sadly [23:16:37] <sdwilsh> WeirdAl: I'd add an eventListner and use JS instead of doing it in C++ [23:16:40] <@vlad> I'd have to use xen though I think [23:16:43] <sdwilsh> although, that could be bad perf wise [23:16:45] <crowder> vlad, Well that's hardly my fault. ;) [23:17:00] <sdwilsh> WeirdAl: I'll write something up on the wiki tomorrow :) [23:17:03] <@vlad> that is true! [23:17:27] <WeirdAl> sdwilsh: do that - although if you're writing an event listener in JS, I can just as easily write it in C++ [23:17:28] poningru [poningru@moz-21E2857A.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #developers [23:17:31] <crowder> You can't build user-mode linux for win32 (cygwin, maybe?) [23:17:34] <crowder> ? [23:17:36] <crowder> I've never tried [23:17:53] <WeirdAl> Hixie: um, what fix did you do? [23:18:12] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: i have forgotten; what did you think was wrong? maybe there was more than one thing i had to fix [23:18:13] brendan [brendaneic@moz-42090664.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #developers [23:18:14] ChanServ [services@localhost.net] has set mode +o brendan [23:18:30] <sdwilsh> WeirdAl: it's really that simple? [23:19:05] <WeirdAl> Hixie: the arguments for addRepetitionBlock*() require a node argument [23:19:06] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [23:19:10] <WeirdAl> for both functions [23:19:32] <WeirdAl> section 3.1.5, which you just added, doesn't do that [23:19:34] <@Hixie> they do? [23:19:40] Hixie wonders what that argument is for [23:19:41] Hixie looks [23:19:56] <WeirdAl> Hixie: Ch7, near the end of the interfaces [23:20:35] <WeirdAl> sdwilsh: it is that simple, but I suspect you'll have to get DOM peers to agree to it... bz and sicking probably know a better way [23:21:07] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [23:21:07] <sdwilsh> WeirdAl: well, I'll worry about that when I get this code done...eta 2 weeks [23:21:11] <@Hixie> oh, i see [23:21:12] <WeirdAl> hehe [23:21:15] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [23:21:19] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: ok, will fix [23:21:26] <WeirdAl> Hixie: thanks :) [23:22:57] <WeirdAl> sdwilsh: I just fear we'll be moving too fast if we try to code everything now [23:23:26] <sdwilsh> WeirdAl: yeah, but this is just the nsDOMWF2RepetitionElement interface [23:23:35] <WeirdAl> which we do kinda need [23:23:37] <sdwilsh> that's what I'm giving the eta of 2 weeks for [23:23:45] sayrer [chatzilla@moz-D9DB9F78.cable.mindspring.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [23:23:49] <sdwilsh> WeirdAl: I'm putting up a patch now [23:23:52] <sdwilsh> 2 functions I know work [23:24:04] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [23:24:22] <WeirdAl> I'm really looking forward to adding some of WF2's capabilities to XUL :) [23:24:32] <sdwilsh> and I would love it if more experienced coders looked at it and told me if things were wrong so far so I don't continue to do them [23:24:47] <sdwilsh> *hint* Bug 347070 *hint* [23:24:47] <WeirdAl> sdwilsh: that's why I keep saying "DOM peers" [23:25:07] <WeirdAl> you mean me? [23:25:11] <sdwilsh> WeirdAl: but I don't want to bug them unless it's an actual review [23:25:19] <sdwilsh> WeirdAl: anyone is better than noone :) [23:25:23] <WeirdAl> bug them. Bug them on IRC [23:26:04] <sdwilsh> my patch doubled in size :) [23:27:12] <WeirdAl> hehe [23:28:48] <sdwilsh> WeirdAl: talk to you more about this probably on Monday [23:28:52] <WeirdAl> hm, Hixie - http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-forms/current-work/#repetitiontype the spec doesn't say what happens if repetitionType is set to an invalid value [23:28:56] <sdwilsh> thanks for your help everyone :) [23:29:07] gavin [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [23:29:16] <sdwilsh> WeirdAl: we do nothing :) [23:29:27] <WeirdAl> I think that's wrong; we should throw a DOM error [23:29:33] <sdwilsh> :( [23:29:41] <WeirdAl> seriously [23:29:49] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: what DOM error? [23:29:50] <sdwilsh> actually, I think I have a comment in my code about doing something with it...but I didn't know [23:30:01] <WeirdAl> Hixie: one sec, I'll look it up [23:30:11] gavin [gavin2@moz-3CD39903.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #developers [23:30:35] <biesi> WeirdAl, do you mean what should happen when doing repetitionType = "foo", or what should happen when reading .repetitionType? [23:30:35] <sdwilsh> WeirdAl: send me an e-mail if you folks decide to do that...I need to close our my Firefox instance, so this window will be closed [23:30:51] sdwilsh [chatzilla@moz-DCFDE60C.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814] [23:30:51] <WeirdAl> biesi: the former [23:31:06] <@Hixie> NOT_SUPPORTED_ERR? [23:31:06] <biesi> what do we do for other attributes? [23:31:12] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [23:31:15] sayrer [chatzilla@moz-D9DB9F78.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #developers [23:31:19] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [23:31:20] <biesi> Hixie, isn't there some sort of invalid value error? [23:31:34] <@Hixie> INDEX_SIZE_ERR? [23:31:38] <@Hixie> SYNTAX_ERR? [23:31:48] <@Hixie> NOT_SUPPORTED_ERR seems closest [23:31:52] robcee [rcampbell@moz-B7FD1F7E.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] is now known as robc_afk [23:32:08] <biesi> TYPE_ERROR? [23:32:09] <biesi> er [23:32:12] <biesi> TYPE_MISMATCH_ERR [23:32:18] <WeirdAl> NOT_SUPPORTED or TYPE_MISMATCH sound right [23:32:26] <biesi> hm, there's that and also TYPE_ERR [23:32:33] <@Hixie> it's not a type mismatch. [23:32:39] <biesi> it is [23:32:42] <@Hixie> it isn't. [23:32:45] <@Hixie> the type is an integer. [23:32:51] <@Hixie> you pass it an integer. [23:32:57] <biesi> oh [23:32:58] <@Hixie> it's just not one of the allowed integers. [23:33:00] <biesi> well [23:33:09] <biesi> still, the type consists of three possible values [23:33:40] <@Hixie> that's the range, not the type. [23:33:40] WeirdAl looks up DOM 2 HTML to see if there are any HTML-specific errs [23:33:43] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [23:33:46] <@Hixie> we're going with NOT_SUPPORTED_ERR. [23:33:50] <biesi> that's a question of how you define type [23:33:59] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [23:34:06] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [23:34:14] <@Hixie> i'm defining it in the industry standard way tought at universities :-P [23:34:28] <WeirdAl> okay, there aren't [23:34:44] <biesi> so am I! ;) [23:34:50] jlurz [chatzilla@moz-3D6A6E92.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/0000000000] [23:34:54] <WeirdAl> Hixie: well, the alternative is that Gecko throws its own error types, but I don't think you want that [23:34:56] <biesi> consider C++, where the types short and long exist [23:34:59] <biesi> both are integers [23:35:01] <biesi> ranges are different [23:35:10] <stephend> er, taught? [23:35:21] <biesi> consider Ada, where you can define types with ranges you specify [23:35:21] <stephend> or is that a British spelling? [23:35:24] <firebot> Firefox: 'Linux balsa-trunk Depend GTK1 (gcc 3.4)' has changed state from Burning to Test Failed. [23:35:48] <sayrer> consider Ada? [23:35:57] <biesi> actually in that type system class I heard 5 or 6 different definitions for "type" [23:36:01] <WeirdAl> Hixie: pick one, and ask your working group :) [23:36:07] Adarsh [hello@C341C54A.E1E7014F.C63D358E.IP] has joined #developers [23:36:24] <@Hixie> i picked [23:36:24] <@Hixie> <Hixie>|we're going with NOT_SUPPORTED_ERR. [23:36:35] <WeirdAl> ok [23:36:40] <biesi> sayrer, yeah, why not? [23:37:01] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [23:37:02] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [23:37:08] <@Hixie> good god i have too many fricking repositories [23:37:08] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [23:37:10] <WeirdAl> maybe you should go through the spec and see where people could otherwise input invalid values to the DOM and how implementers should react to that. [23:37:14] <WeirdAl> :) [23:37:21] <sayrer> biesi, I thought of Erlang, where you have guards on functions [23:37:23] <@Hixie> every spec i've edited today has two separate CVS/SVN repos that it gets checked in [23:37:29] <@Hixie> and they all use slightly different sets! [23:37:30] <@Hixie> gah [23:38:06] <sayrer> biesi, like |fact(N) when N>0| [23:38:06] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [23:38:09] <biesi> sayrer, nice [23:38:25] kbrosnan [kbrosnan@moz-653FD72.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [23:38:31] <sayrer> biesi, so your Ada point is taken ;) [23:38:47] <WeirdAl> Hixie: really, though, going through and trying to shove bad cheese into the spec's DOM should be considered [23:38:52] <biesi> I forgot the ada syntax, but you could say something like foo is a subtype of int with range 0..100 [23:39:14] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: ? [23:39:18] <sayrer> but is it important to get that mixed up with the type system? not sure [23:39:18] <Adarsh> Where can i get the XML schema for workbench.xml in eclipse? [23:39:46] asqueellaNotHere_ [asqueella@39CF7984.E75E2ED.75E391B9.IP] has joined #developers [23:39:50] <biesi> Adarsh, sounds rather offtopic for this channel I have to say... [23:39:54] <WeirdAl> Hixie: I mean, every case where feeds something incorrect to the DOM should throw some kind of exception [23:40:05] <WeirdAl> s/where feeds/where a user feeds [23:40:06] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: personally I'm not a big fan of exceptions. [23:40:17] <WeirdAl> we gotta handle it somehow. [23:40:29] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: i just want the spec to be well-defined, and as far as i know it is well-defined. [23:40:31] <Adarsh> biesi, in which channel should i ask this question? [23:40:34] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: this particular case was well-defined too [23:40:41] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: it just didn't do anything if you gave it bad data [23:40:49] <WeirdAl> Hixie: hey, it's my job as an implementer to point out holes :) [23:40:57] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: i don't think it was a hole :-) [23:41:06] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: if you have any specific places that you think should raise exceptions, though, let me know [23:41:06] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [23:41:06] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [23:41:08] <WeirdAl> ok, "clarifications" [23:41:12] <biesi> Adarsh, I don't know, a different server for a start [23:41:14] dbaron [dbaron@moz-1559392A.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #developers [23:41:14] ChanServ [services@localhost.net] has set mode +o dbaron [23:41:15] <sayrer> exceptions are not the only way to detect failure [23:41:16] Hixie doesn't think it was unclear either :-P [23:41:26] <biesi> Adarsh, http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/IRC [23:41:41] asqueellaNotHere [asqueella@moz-345F63D6.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [23:41:46] <Adarsh> biesi, ok Thank you.. [23:41:48] asqueellaNotHere_ [asqueella@39CF7984.E75E2ED.75E391B9.IP] is now known as asqueellaNotHere [23:42:36] <WeirdAl> Hixie: too bad you can't have one repo updated, say, daily, and the other constantly :) [23:43:07] <@Hixie> WeirdAl: yeah, well, people are referring to both continuously [23:43:07] <sayrer> hook script! [23:43:26] <biesi> get a script which does the second checkin for you automatically? [23:43:46] <@Hixie> that's what i do [23:44:08] <@Hixie> but e.g. xbl2 and wf2 have different sets of scripts [23:44:18] <@Hixie> and you need a different checkin message for the two repos [23:44:25] <@Hixie> since sometimes the changes are different [23:44:26] rhelmer-afk [robert@43CDFC52.3158155A.4D846E27.IP] is now known as rhelmer [23:45:06] <biesi> is the reason for two repos that one is a private w3c repository, while the second one is a public whatwg one? [23:45:20] <@Hixie> wf2 is in public w3c cvs and public whatwg svn [23:45:28] <@Hixie> xbl2 is in public mozilla cvs and public w3c cvs [23:45:43] stephend [stephend@moz-40449CC1.sbndin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit IRC: Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The dawn of a new IRC era [23:45:55] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [23:46:04] <biesi> so if both are public in both cases [23:46:05] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [23:46:08] <biesi> why bother with the second one? [23:46:12] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [23:46:18] <@Hixie> (the versions in mozilla cvs, w3c cvs, and whatwg svn have different headers) [23:46:30] <@Hixie> biesi: because i refuse to make the w3c version the only version, yet i have to have a w3c version. [23:46:33] dbaron [dbaron@moz-1559392A.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [23:46:51] <biesi> hmm, ok [23:47:18] timr [timr@moz-40EBEA2C.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [23:47:50] <WeirdAl> I have too many tabs open [23:48:51] dt [darktemple@227A2DA3.9A569128.47BCF416.IP] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [23:50:16] bienvenu_ [DavidBienv@moz-DA017C7B.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit IRC: Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com [23:51:53] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [23:51:54] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [23:52:01] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion [23:54:33] dria [dria@moz-B7FD1F7E.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving [23:54:44] navin [chatzilla@BF67299B.27F20C89.547774E7.IP] has joined #developers [23:55:54] dt [darktemple@moz-B46E4156.adl0.adsl.esc.net.au] has joined #developers [23:55:56] [reed] [reed@moz-AC62DFA1.griffis.dynamic.msstate.edu] has joined #developers [23:56:04] reed [reed@moz-8B91DE17.vpn.dynamic.msstate.edu] has quit IRC: Ping timeout [23:58:25] [reed] [reed@moz-AC62DFA1.griffis.dynamic.msstate.edu] is now known as reed [23:58:25] plasticmillion [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has quit IRC: Connection reset by peer [23:58:34] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] has joined #developers [23:58:41] plasticmillion__ [chatzilla@moz-E61C758C.ip.b26.cz] is now known as plasticmillion ### Log session terminated at Fri Aug 18 00:00:00 2006 ###