### Log session started at Fri Nov 30 00:00:00 2007 ###
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[00:00:26] <WeirdAl> your call, bz
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[00:02:41] <@bz> I'm about to head to bed
[00:02:50] <@bz> so whatever we do should be fast
[00:02:59] <Callek> bz: does layout debug spew stuff to console continuously
[00:03:04] <WeirdAl> I'm just the pilot.  You're the captain.
[00:03:06] <Callek> or is it only for actual debug work?
[00:03:09] <@bz> Callek: not the extension, no
[00:03:16] <@bz> weirdal: hrm.  OK.  One sec..
[00:03:41] <@bz> weirdal: ok.
[00:03:49] <@bz> weirdal: load the testcase
[00:03:59] <WeirdAl> already there
[00:04:23] <@bz> weirdal: type javascript:void(document.body.appendChild(document.createTextNode('x'))) in  the url bar, but don't hit enter
[00:04:34] <@bz> weirdal: breakpoint in nsCSSFrameConstructor::ContentAppended
[00:04:38] <@bz> weirdal: then hit enter
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[00:05:28] <WeirdAl> at the breakpoint
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[00:06:46] WeirdAl muses, idly, about the idea of combining a debugger with an IRC client... so that others could suggest commands, and with the click of a button, the debugger's owner could say "Do this"
[00:07:07] <@bz> WeirdAl: ok.  What's mPresShell.mDocument ?
[00:07:13] <@bz> er, mPresShell->mDocument
[00:07:37] <WeirdAl> nsHTMLDocument
[00:07:40] <@bz> ok
[00:08:10] <@bz> call nsIFrameDebug::DumpFrameTree(mPresShell->GetRootFrame())
[00:08:41] <WeirdAl> going to pastebin
[00:08:59] <WeirdAl> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/252134
[00:10:46] <@bz> uh
[00:10:48] <@bz> uhhhh
[00:11:17] <@bz> one sec
[00:12:41] <@bz> so that outer div has 0 height...
[00:12:47] <@bz> and the inner div has 0 width
[00:12:50] <@bz> that makes sense
[00:12:50] <@bz> ok
[00:12:52] <@bz> thanks!
[00:13:21] <WeirdAl> hehe, you're quite welcome.
[00:13:28] <WeirdAl> hope you get a useful bug comment out of it
[00:13:39] <@bz> oh, I did
[00:13:43] <@bz> it almost sorta kinda makes sense
[00:14:20] <WeirdAl> now I just need someone to tell me if it's more efficient to generate XUL treechildren, treeitem, etc. elements, or to implement a JS-based nsITreeView
[00:14:32] <WeirdAl> (the former from JS/DOM calls)
[00:14:38] <@bz> probably the latter
[00:14:41] <@bz> a lot less weight
[00:14:56] <WeirdAl> that's sort of what I expected.
[00:15:33] <WeirdAl> and it explains why nobody took me seriously years ago when I suggested we should do XUL elements inside the tree...
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[00:24:30] <@bz> weirdal: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=400813#c13 fwiw
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[00:26:40] <WeirdAl> heh, too bad I really don't understand that, but that's ok
[00:26:48] <WeirdAl> I think I get the gist of it
[00:27:28] <@bz_sleep> well... dbaron was the main target audience
[00:27:36] <@bz_sleep> with maybe stuart and vlad as secondary audience
[00:27:41] <@bz_sleep> I think they'll get it.  ;)
[00:27:49] <WeirdAl> sleep well
[00:27:50] <@bz_sleep> I can explain if you care
[00:28:46] <WeirdAl> no :)
[00:28:50] <@bz_sleep> ok
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[00:32:35] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.2 fxdbug-win32-tb Depend Debug + Leak Test' has changed state from Success to Test Failed.
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[01:09:53] <WeirdAl> Does anyone know of a list of valid action names for http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/layout/xul/base/src/tree/public/nsITreeView.idl#223 ?
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[01:14:49] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.2 fxdbug-win32-tb Depend Debug + Leak Test' has changed state from Test Failed to Success.
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[01:20:21] <roc> what are we going to do about this broken tree?
[01:20:28] <roc> is anyone awake?
[01:21:09] <roc> anyone else in favour of reopening as long as qm-win2k3-01 stays green?
[01:21:15] <sdwilsh|away> roc: I am, but I don't think I count
[01:21:38] <roc> you'll do!
[01:23:12] <gavin|> sounds OK to me
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[01:23:43] <Mossop> If I could stay connected for long enough to speak I'd agree too
[01:23:47] <Mardak> sdwilsh|away: think css selection :odd/:even will be implemented for ff3? ;)
[01:24:14] <sdwilsh|away> Mardak: wouldn't that be nice
[01:24:50] <Mardak> trying to figure out how to incrementally add items... without calling oddEven each time
[01:25:00] <Mardak> and when a download finishes and moves positions....
[01:25:33] <Jonathan> sdwilsh|away: would it be like to have @page and media queries too?
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[01:26:10] <sdwilsh|away> Mardak: man am I glad you time for this stuff
[01:26:20] <sdwilsh|away> Jonathan: I don't care so much about those :p
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[01:26:34] <Mardak> time for this stuff? o.O
[01:26:59] <Jonathan> @media and (boo)
[01:27:49] <sdwilsh|away> Mardak: you seem to have more time than me!
[01:29:12] <Mardak> sacrificing sleep ;)
[01:30:08] <Jonathan> time? who got a time left?
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[01:32:09] <gavin|> who wrote the long story that's currently on tinderbox and didn't sign their name?
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[01:32:58] <dietrich> gavin|: ack, me
[01:33:31] <dietrich> i left the tree closed, since there's no clear picture of what's failing
[01:33:43] <dietrich> and i'm heading back to the hotel. i'll be back online in a bit.
[01:34:07] <gavin|> heh, k :)
[01:34:15] dietrich fixes name+formatting
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[01:41:46] <john> http://wiki.mozilla.org/Gecko:Compositor
[01:41:56] <john> can anyone point me in the direction of where I can find the functions listed on that page?
[01:43:23] <gavin|> they don't exist yet
[01:43:29] <john> oh
[01:43:31] <john> um....
[01:43:34] <gavin|> that page describes work that's planned for future gecko releases
[01:43:41] <john> anything similar that does exist...?
[01:43:54] <john> as in, how can I request an invalidation of a certain region
[01:43:55] <john> from js
[01:44:03] <gavin|> you're lucky, roc is here!
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[01:44:11] <john> oh, awesome!
[01:44:22] <john> roc, any thoughts?
[01:44:24] <roc> hmm?
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[01:44:39] <john> so, I'm trying to do something fairly weird
[01:44:48] <john> I'm trying to overlay a SWF in the chrome
[01:44:52] <john> on top of gecko rendered content
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[01:45:15] <john> and when I put the SWF (via an embed xul element) and the tabPanels into a XUL "stack"
[01:45:22] <john> I get rendering update artifacts
[01:45:32] <john> as in, when I move the mouse, the gecko parts render
[01:45:35] <john> but other times not
[01:45:49] <john> so, I'm trying to figure out how I can hook into requesting repaints of the gecko surface
[01:45:54] <john> or some way to invalidate the gecko regions, etc
[01:46:08] <john> erm, hopefully I'm making some sense.... (I'm pretty new to moz hacking)
[01:46:15] <roc> windowless or windowed?
[01:46:23] <roc> what you're describing just sounds like a bug
[01:46:34] <john> not sure what you mean by windowless or windowed...
[01:46:44] <roc> I mean is the Flash wmode="transparent" or not?
[01:46:47] <john> ah
[01:46:58] <john> yes, it's transparent / windowless
[01:47:08] <john> well, in fact, I'm willing to not set it to transparent
[01:47:16] <roc> that probably won't help
[01:47:18] <john> but my thought was that it's the only way to get the SWF to render only certain parts
[01:47:21] <roc> is this on Windows?
[01:47:24] <john> yep
[01:47:27] <john> win xp
[01:47:32] <roc> what do you mean "render only certain parts"?
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[01:47:43] <john> so, for example, if I draw a donut
[01:47:46] <john> with an empty hole
[01:47:52] <john> that hole should show through to the gecko parts
[01:47:56] <roc> are these tabpanels "content"-type tabpanels?
[01:48:14] <john> they're the tabPanels that are children of the tabbox
[01:48:16] <john> within tabBrowser.xml
[01:48:22] <john> in /global/content/bindings
[01:48:23] <roc> ok, so this is Firefox chrome?
[01:48:25] <john> yep
[01:48:30] <roc> ok
[01:48:33] <roc> you're screwed :-(
[01:48:36] <john> ahahahaha
[01:48:38] <john> awesome!
[01:48:39] <john> really?
[01:48:47] <roc> pretty much
[01:48:52] <john> ok....
[01:49:05] <john> can I get a little more reason as to why I'm screwed...
[01:49:10] <roc> there's a sort of workaround that the phishing UI used in Firefox 2
[01:49:23] <john> ok....
[01:49:25] <roc> it sucks in a variety of ways
[01:49:30] <john> I guess, what am I "screwed" on?
[01:50:12] <roc> basically "content" subdocuments (i.e. Firefox tab contents) and "chrome" subdocuments do not play together in the same rendering tree
[01:50:25] <john> sure...
[01:50:33] <john> ok, makes sense...
[01:50:44] <john> well, here's another way I was thinking of doing it
[01:50:49] <john> let me know if I'm just crazy
[01:50:55] <john> but I was thinking the other way...
[01:51:26] <john> would be to write a completely standalone win32 app, that injects a window (hwnd-style) into the firefox UI
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[01:51:40] <john> the window it injects would have the flags set, such that windows would know it's supposed to be transparent
[01:51:42] <roc> you were looking in the right place, the compositor is designed to fix this (and do other things too)
[01:51:51] <john> would that work?
[01:52:00] <john> that is, to have the Windows OS manager composite this correctly?
[01:52:07] <john> if I inject a window into the firefox ui
[01:52:15] <john> and in that window, use the Flash Active X?
[01:52:17] <roc> I have no idea if Windows can do that properly
[01:52:26] <john> hrm....
[01:52:35] <john> do you figure it's even worth a shot?
[01:52:38] <john> or completely in vain?
[01:52:38] <roc> try it with a test app
[01:52:50] <john> so, here's what makes me think that it will work
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[01:52:56] <glazou> bonjour
[01:52:56] <john> if the window is another top-level window
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[01:53:04] <john> as far as the Windows OS window manager is concerned
[01:53:06] <john> it works fine
[01:53:13] <john> any Adobe AIR app demonstrates that
[01:53:19] <john> so, my only difference would be that it's not a toplevel window
[01:53:21] <john> that's holding the SWF
[01:53:24] <roc> we can do transparent windows too
[01:53:29] <john> oh really?
[01:53:33] <john> how...?
[01:53:36] <roc> but only toplevel ones
[01:53:37] <john> I tried popup
[01:53:42] <roc> same way other windows apps do it
[01:53:44] <john> and that kinda sucked, I got gray
[01:53:48] <roc> make a popup
[01:53:54] <roc> give it -moz-appearance:none, background:transparent
[01:54:12] <john> ah!
[01:54:12] <roc> that's pretty much it
[01:54:14] <@bz_sleep> well, it's been 14 hours
[01:54:15] <john> ok, maybe that'd do it
[01:54:17] <@bz_sleep> still no crash data.  :(
[01:54:19] <WeirdAl> hey glazou
[01:54:38] <john> roc: so popup maps to top-level window at the OS level?
[01:54:42] <roc> yeah
[01:54:52] <john> ok, let me try that
[01:55:00] <roc> you can also create transparent XUL <window>s and <dialog>s
[01:55:01] <john> I know that opacity:0.5 gave me gray
[01:55:15] <roc> you probably didn't cancel the -moz-appearance and got the theme background
[01:55:27] <john> yeah, that sounds right
[01:55:42] <john> how do I cancel moz-appearance, via setProperty("-moz-appearance", "none"); ?
[01:55:48] <john> I'm doing this from js
[01:55:55] <john> (prefer to keep my hands clean if I can :-) )
[01:56:05] <roc> yeah
[01:56:10] <glazou> hey roc, the new offices are now clean yet but all computers already up and running :-) sounds like a geeks' place ;-)
[01:56:16] <glazou> s/now/not
[01:56:23] <wormsxulla> roc: will a transparent window with -moz-appareance: none have a titlebar etc.? (sorry to intrude)
[01:56:26] <roc> glazou: :-)
[01:56:35] <roc> first priority: Internt
[01:56:41] <roc> second priority: toilet paper
[01:57:15] <roc> wormsxulla: you want to set hidechrome="true" in your XUL root element
[01:57:20] <roc> to remove the title
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[01:57:30] <roc> of course popups never have titles
[01:57:45] <wormsxulla> roc: thanks. i didn't know about transparent windows WITH chrome
[01:57:58] <roc> john: is this a new popup of your own, or an existing Firefox popup you want to make transparent?
[01:58:08] <john> a new one
[01:58:22] <john> my intent would then be to put an embed in the popup
[01:58:28] <john> and the embed would be "windowless"
[01:58:32] <john> or would that be equally pointless?
[01:58:35] <roc> the easiest thing to do is just add style="-moz-appearance:none; background:transparent;" to the XML for the element
[01:58:45] <john> yeah, I wish
[01:58:49] <john> the stuff I'm adding to is anonid'd
[01:58:56] <john> so I have to do it programatically
[01:59:03] <roc> I'm a bit confused
[01:59:03] <john> I don't think I can do it declaratively...
[01:59:11] <john> er, so tabBrowser.xml
[01:59:16] <john> declares certain things with anonid
[01:59:21] <john> so I can't use an overlay to add to it
[01:59:48] <john> I get a hold of the tabBox via
[01:59:50] <john> var tabBox = document.getAnonymousElementByAttribute(browser,"anonid","tabbox");
[01:59:50] <roc> well ok whatever
[02:00:00] <john> haha, yeah, I don't want to bug you too much
[02:00:04] <roc> you can't make the *tab box" anonymous
[02:00:08] <john> let me try the popup thing to see if it does the right thing
[02:00:14] <roc> I mean
[02:00:19] <roc> you cant make the tabs transparent
[02:00:24] <john> right
[02:00:36] <roc> where's your popup coming from?
[02:00:39] <john> I'm not trying to change the behavior of the tabs or the browser in general, in any way
[02:00:47] <john> from my init function
[02:00:49] <john> in the extension
[02:00:54] <john> so, the window.load event
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[02:01:01] <john> I just call document.createPopup
[02:01:06] <john> then I'll position it as neccessary
[02:01:10] <roc> ok
[02:01:15] <roc> keep in mind the window might move
[02:01:17] <john> and track if the user moves the top-level UI
[02:01:21] <john> right
[02:01:22] <roc> ok
[02:01:24] <roc> yeah
[02:01:27] <roc> something like that might work
[02:01:29] <john> I'm guessing there's a way to track that via js?
[02:01:33] <roc> dunno
[02:01:48] <roc> it won't be perfectly smooth, I'm sure of that
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[02:01:58] <john> yeah.... that kinda worries me
[02:02:00] <roc> sorry this is such a pain
[02:02:01] <john> well, let me try it...
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[02:02:08] <john> are you kidding me?
[02:02:10] <john> I've got the infamous roc helping me
[02:02:10] <roc> there just wasn't time to do compositor for 1.9
[02:02:15] <john> I'm actually pretty flattered
[02:02:53] <roc> hey
[02:02:55] <roc> I'm just a guy
[02:03:03] <roc> don't flatter me :-)
[02:03:11] <john> yeah, but between you and a couple other folks
[02:03:17] <john> there's no one else that knows the guts of gecko
[02:03:30] <john> and like it or not, gecko is the engine that defines html
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[02:03:44] <john> so, just, you know, make sure you don't get hit by a bus
[02:03:47] <john> we need that knowledge :-)
[02:04:32] <roc> ok, thanks for the tip! :-)
[02:05:14] <john> sure, np
[02:05:20] <john> so, I'm screwing up the popup somehow
[02:05:32] <john> do I need to add it to some document first, before calling showPopup?
[02:05:48] <roc> yeah
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[02:06:54] <roc> look in and around here, the autoscroll stuff uses a transparent popup
[02:06:54] <roc> http://mxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/toolkit/content/widgets/browser.xml#719
[02:07:18] <john> ok, kewl!
[02:07:23] <john> so, I got the transparency thing to work
[02:07:37] <john> no, can I do popup.appendChild or popup.document.appendChild ?
[02:07:42] <john> no=so
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[02:10:50] <roc> popup.appendChild
[02:10:55] <roc> a popup does not have its own document
[02:11:02] <roc> (which maybe was a mistake, but there we are)
[02:11:20] <john> ok, so I should call popup.appendChild directly...?
[02:11:26] <roc> sure
[02:11:33] <john> what's also weird is that I don't see the popup in the DOM inspector
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[02:11:47] <john> oh, nm
[02:13:26] <john> ok, so, interesting results...
[02:13:38] <john> I can appendChild(oEmbed) if it's not transparent
[02:13:48] <john> but if it is, it doesn't work
[02:14:01] <john> as in, the appended embed into the popup doesn't appear at all
[02:14:07] <john> I just see the bleed through to whatever is underneath
[02:14:11] <john> great transparency
[02:14:19] <john> but no pixels rendered by the SWF
[02:14:21] <john> :-(
[02:15:15] <john> what's even worse, in the non-transparent case
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[02:15:30] <john> the SWF doesn't get the mouse events
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[02:17:29] <john> roc: any thoughts...
[02:19:08] <roc> guess SWF doesn't like drawing to an HDC that's holding an RGBA bitmap :-(
[02:19:24] <john> hrm...
[02:19:29] <john> well, it does if it's not transparent
[02:19:40] <roc> in that case it gets its own widget and its own HDC
[02:19:44] <john> I guess, can you point me to the code that handles the popup on the XPCOM side?
[02:19:52] <john> well, the thing is
[02:19:56] <john> it's transparency that screws it up
[02:19:57] <roc> I don't think this is going to work, sorry
[02:20:08] <john> haha, well, that's ok
[02:20:17] <roc> sounds like Flash just doesn't know how to draw to a transparent target
[02:20:27] <john> right...
[02:20:34] <john> well, there's still the win32 approach
[02:20:45] <roc> that might work, but it'll be evil
[02:20:47] <john> of inserting a window with flash hosted on it
[02:20:52] <john> hrm....
[02:20:54] <john> evil in what way...?
[02:21:13] <roc> injecting an HWND that we don't know about into the Firefox HWND tree
[02:21:21] <john> sure...
[02:21:30] <john> but any technical evil-ness behind it....?
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[02:21:38] <john> or just bad form in theory?
[02:21:48] <roc> more the latter
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[02:21:57] <roc> I can't think of anything specific that will go wrong, but something might
[02:22:11] <@bz_sleep> We Don't Support It
[02:22:13] <john> ok, well, if you can't think of anything, that means it's worth it for me to try
[02:22:21] <@bz_sleep> Of course the things we do support don't do what you need...
[02:22:39] bz_sleep should hunt more blockers
[02:22:46] <john> oh, I live on the edge
[02:22:49] <john> who needs support...
[02:22:50] <john> :-)
[02:23:08] <@bz_sleep> "support" includes "fix bugs if there are some"... ;)
[02:23:14] <john> I know
[02:23:16] <john> but the thing is
[02:23:20] <john> I've never asked for a bug fix
[02:23:28] <@bz_sleep> sure
[02:23:29] <john> I figure if it's broken, and bothers me enough, I should just fix it
[02:23:32] <john> :-)
[02:23:32] bz_sleep should really sleep...
[02:23:37] <john> yeah, go sleep
[02:23:40] <john> :-)
[02:23:44] <john> oh, but
[02:23:47] <@bz_sleep> yeah, having trouble with that.  ;)
[02:23:48] <john> any thoughts on what I can do instead?
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[02:23:56] <john> I mean
[02:23:58] <john> I want a SWF
[02:24:00] <john> with a donut
[02:24:04] <@bz_sleep> not past what roc said
[02:24:10] <john> hrm...
[02:24:13] <@bz_sleep> he knows a heck of a lot more about this than I do
[02:24:17] <john> ok, let me ask a different thing...
[02:24:22] <john> to both of you...
[02:24:25] <@bz_sleep> "this" == "all the graphics stuff"
[02:24:28] <john> right...
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[02:24:33] <roc> john: could you use <canvas> instead of Flash for this?
[02:24:35] <john> well, this question is not really graphics
[02:24:40] <john> I wish
[02:24:44] <john> I need the flash vm
[02:24:46] <roc> because a transparent canvas in the popup would probably work
[02:25:01] <@bz_sleep> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/chart.cgi?category=-All-&subcategory=-All-&name=1183&label0=1.9%2B+-+Content&line0=1201&label1=1.9%2B+-+Layout&line1=1206&label2=1.9%2B+-+Gfx%2FWidget&line2=1203&datefrom=&dateto=&action-wrap=Chart+This+List
[02:25:02] <roc> with a donut etc
[02:25:05] <@bz_sleep> That's just depressing.  :(
[02:25:10] <john> so, here's another thought
[02:25:20] <john> actually, first let me confirm I understand the problem correctly
[02:25:25] <john> the only reason this doesn't work
[02:25:32] <john> is that my SWF is being embedded from the chrome
[02:25:35] <john> and the chrome tree
[02:25:38] <john> and DOM tree for each page
[02:25:41] <john> don't play well together
[02:25:46] <john> in the rendering pipeline, correct?
[02:25:52] <roc> sort of yeah
[02:26:00] <john> feel free to correct...
[02:26:07] <john> is there something I said wrong... wrong terms, etc
[02:26:08] <@bz_sleep> They have separate rendering pipelines, effectively
[02:26:20] <john> ok, so, shouldn't I be able to say, render pipeline 1, then 2
[02:26:25] <john> the SWF is *always* on top
[02:26:36] <john> so render gecko first, then chrome surfaces
[02:26:44] <john> I was thinking I could even make manual calls to invalidate regions, etc
[02:27:21] <@bz_sleep> Your real issue is that when the transparent region in the SWF changes you need to repaint it in the content document
[02:27:23] <@bz_sleep> right?
[02:27:33] <john> let's say the transparent region stays the same
[02:27:40] <john> and is rectangular
[02:27:52] <john> I need the stuff the SWF overlays on top of the "content"
[02:27:55] <@bz_sleep> If the transparent region stays the same, where do the problems come in?
[02:27:55] <john> to be in one place
[02:28:08] <@bz_sleep> I guess if the content changes that region might not update...
[02:28:18] <john> right...
[02:28:28] <john> so, in my initial attempts at this
[02:28:34] <john> I waited for the dom to be parsed
[02:28:41] <@bz_sleep> So here's my first question
[02:28:45] <john> and then just inserted the embed into the "content" tree
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[02:28:47] <@bz_sleep> do you need this to work with a stock Firefox?
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[02:29:06] <john> so, I'm willing to write an installer that will modify a stock firefox
[02:29:09] <john> into whatever state neccessary
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[02:29:18] <john> but yes, the end-user will have a stock firefox install
[02:29:22] <@bz_sleep> not quite what I had in mind. ; )
[02:29:28] <john> and ideally I won't screw up anything for the user
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[02:29:37] <john> I guess, put another way
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[02:29:39] <@bz_sleep> If you were compiling your own....
[02:29:41] <@bz_sleep> ok
[02:29:51] <john> if you had to put a SWF in a sidebar-like fashion
[02:29:53] <john> on top of the content
[02:29:57] <@bz_sleep> so basically you need to make sure that invalidates happen in both places
[02:29:57] <john> how would you do it?
[02:30:04] <john> ok, right...
[02:30:42] bz_sleep doesn't think we have an obvious way to observe them, though.  :(
[02:30:49] <john> ah...
[02:30:51] <john> I was wondering about that
[02:30:56] <john> well, forget observing for a second
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[02:31:03] <john> how do I request invalidation of the content areas?
[02:31:07] <@bz_sleep> oh
[02:31:08] <john> the wiki page I saw was TBD
[02:31:13] <@bz_sleep> that's easier.  ;)
[02:31:17] <john> ah!
[02:31:19] <@bz_sleep> There's an nsIFrame API
[02:31:21] <john> light at the end of some tunnel?!
[02:31:33] <john> wait, so, can I have an iframe
[02:31:36] <john> that never goes away
[02:31:43] <john> that's overlaid on top of all other content?
[02:31:46] <@bz_sleep> hold on
[02:31:49] <john> as in, it doesn't get wiped out with page loads?
[02:31:51] <john> ok, holding :-)
[02:31:56] <@bz_sleep> nsIFrame is just the rendering object
[02:32:02] <john> ok
[02:32:02] <@bz_sleep> and it's not an API you can use from JS...
[02:32:10] <john> hah, ok....
[02:32:23] <@bz_sleep> basically, if you're in C++
[02:32:30] <john> well, sounds like I am anyway
[02:32:35] <@bz_sleep> and you have the two Window or Document or whatever pointers
[02:32:36] <john> my other approach is to inject an hWnd
[02:32:50] <@bz_sleep> to the chrome and the content
[02:33:02] <john> ok...
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[02:33:20] <john> is there anyway to overlay in a fixed place, "stuff" over the content?
[02:33:21] <@bz_sleep> you can get the root frames for both
[02:33:28] <john> that doesn't get blown away on each page load?
[02:33:32] <@bz_sleep> and then use http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/layout/generic/nsIFrame.h#1630
[02:33:43] <john> ah, Invalidate(), ok
[02:33:56] <@bz_sleep> mmm
[02:34:08] <john> I guess, I have no problem stuffing the SWF in "content"
[02:34:12] <@bz_sleep> how evil do you want to be?  ;)
[02:34:14] <john> I just need it to be a) on top and b) stay put
[02:34:16] <john> very evil!
[02:34:21] <@bz_sleep> ok
[02:34:38] <@bz_sleep> a user stylesheet that binds <html> with some XBL
[02:34:49] <john> ok...
[02:34:54] <@bz_sleep> The XBL could look something like:
[02:34:57] <@bz_sleep>   <content>
[02:35:17] <@bz_sleep>     <embed style="position: fixed; top: ... "/>
[02:35:23] <@bz_sleep>     <children/>
[02:35:27] <@bz_sleep>   </content>
[02:35:39] <@bz_sleep> (well, plus the other crap you need in the XBL file, etc, etc
[02:35:49] <@bz_sleep> There isn't that much more
[02:36:18] <@bz_sleep> If the binding is installed at a chrome:// URI, after the first time it gets loaded the loads will be sync
[02:36:19] <john> oh
[02:36:28] <john> interesting...
[02:36:32] <john> but during tabbed browsing
[02:36:34] <@bz_sleep> So it shouldn't even affect performance too too seriously
[02:36:38] <john> I would have a unique instance of the swf per tab?
[02:36:46] <@bz_sleep> yes, with this approach you would
[02:36:49] <john> crap
[02:36:55] <john> ok, you got me 99% of the way there
[02:36:58] <john> I need the other 1% :-)
[02:37:07] <@bz_sleep> heh
[02:37:12] <john> so the "content" tree...
[02:37:16] <john> is unique to each tab?
[02:37:22] <@bz_sleep> yeah
[02:37:25] <john> and the only way to "overlay" all of them
[02:37:27] <john> is to use chrome?
[02:37:31] <@bz_sleep> yep
[02:37:36] <john> god F***** it
[02:37:39] <john> ok...
[02:37:44] <john> yeah, in terms of performance
[02:37:48] <@bz_sleep> Is the swf pretty static?
[02:37:51] <john> how would you feel about 50 SWFs in 50 tabs?
[02:37:53] <@bz_sleep> Or is it actually changing?
[02:38:02] <john> so, it's not changing as much as it's doing network I/O
[02:38:02] <@bz_sleep> I'd feel terrible!
[02:38:06] <john> yeah, exactly
[02:38:09] <@bz_sleep> Heck, I feel that way about one swf in one tab
[02:38:11] <john> ahahaha
[02:38:19] <john> don't worry, I'll disable the rt-click menu
[02:38:23] <john> you'll have to use Spy++ to find it
[02:38:34] <john> and even then you guys wrap it with your Mozilla win32 class
[02:38:41] <john> anyway...
[02:38:43] <@bz_sleep> if you're willing to tear down and recreate the thing on tab switches, you could probably do it that way too...
[02:38:48] <@bz_sleep> inject it into the content DOM
[02:38:58] <john> so, wouldn't that flicker?
[02:39:04] <@bz_sleep> when the tab switches, remove the node from the one document, place one in the new document
[02:39:05] <@bz_sleep> mmmm
[02:39:08] <@bz_sleep> it might, yes.
[02:39:16] <john> I guess that might be worth a shot
[02:39:26] <john> so, what would I do, remove it from one content tree
[02:39:31] <john> and add it to the other?
[02:39:37] <@bz_sleep> yeah
[02:39:40] <john> I thought I could only override the html tree via a user style?
[02:39:44] <john> I can do this programatically as well?
[02:39:50] <john> as in html.append(...)
[02:39:53] <john> or something similar?
[02:39:53] <@bz_sleep> I'd create a new one and stick it in the new document
[02:39:54] <@bz_sleep> sure
[02:39:58] <@bz_sleep> with an extension, no problem
[02:40:01] <john> really...?
[02:40:04] <@bz_sleep> greasemonkey, eg
[02:40:06] <@bz_sleep> does it all the time.  ;)
[02:40:07] <john> ok, so, document.appendChild ...?
[02:40:16] <john> well, but I mean, I have to do this on each page load?
[02:40:21] <@bz_sleep> well, probably more like document.documentElement.appendChild()
[02:40:22] <@bz_sleep> and yes
[02:40:26] <john> oh!
[02:40:29] <@bz_sleep> you'd have to do it on every pageload
[02:40:32] <@bz_sleep> and every tab switch
[02:40:33] <john> well, I did that in my first try :-)
[02:40:36] <john> ohhhh
[02:40:41] <john> wait, so this html overriding XBL thing
[02:40:52] <john> that doesn't solve the problem of having to inject it on each page load?
[02:40:59] <@bz_sleep> well
[02:41:00] <john> I guess that's the main thing I'm trying to fight
[02:41:04] <john> that the SWF stay put
[02:41:10] <@bz_sleep> the xbl thing would create one on each pageload, yeah
[02:41:12] <john> while necko is busy fetching, and gecko busy laying out
[02:41:20] <@bz_sleep> pretty much any content solution would....
[02:41:26] <john> ok...
[02:41:28] <@bz_sleep> since we sort of tear down the old page
[02:41:34] <john> so, the content gets "torn down" each page load?
[02:41:39] <john> I see
[02:42:06] <john> so, I guess my older statement of "the only way to overlay the content with something that stays put is with chrome"
[02:42:09] <john> is correct...?
[02:42:17] <john> where "stays put" means doesn't flicker or go away during page load....?
[02:42:21] <@bz_sleep> yeah
[02:42:24] <john> crap
[02:42:25] <@bz_sleep> in that case, yes
[02:42:31] <john> double crap
[02:42:47] <john> nothing iframe related I can do?
[02:42:51] <@bz_sleep> Your hwnd approach sounds like the next thing to try....
[02:42:56] <john> yeah...
[02:42:58] <john> it's a real PITA
[02:43:06] <@bz_sleep> it sounds like it
[02:43:09] <john> I've already screwed up SetWindowsHookEx many times
[02:43:19] <john> then I thought "maybe this firefox extension thing is not so bad"
[02:43:21] <john> then I got to where I am now
[02:43:25] <john> welcome to my life :-(
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[02:43:55] <@bz_sleep> heh
[02:44:04] <@bz_sleep> the extension thing is great
[02:44:09] <john> yeah, it is!
[02:44:11] <@bz_sleep> as long as you stick to stuff we can do....
[02:44:12] <john> for everything except this
[02:44:15] <@bz_sleep> well
[02:44:15] <john> yeah, exactly
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[02:44:21] <john> I was amazed how much stuff adobe stole from xul
[02:44:21] <@bz_sleep> it's acceptable as long as you stick to it
[02:44:30] <@bz_sleep> for FLEX, you mean?
[02:44:35] <john> yeah!
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[02:44:47] <john> I guess maybe some talent/employees were shared..?
[02:45:00] bz_sleep doesn't think so, offhand...
[02:45:11] <john> I also recall thinking that xaml was pretty clever
[02:45:14] <john> a few years back
[02:45:14] <@bz_sleep> but it's not like XUL is hard to find out there...
[02:45:28] <john> but turns out XUL had the same "cool concepts" from back in the day
[02:45:37] <@bz_sleep> anyway
[02:45:40] <john> yeah, ok
[02:45:40] <@bz_sleep> sleep for real
[02:45:43] <john> agreed
[02:45:44] bz_sleep glares at the green line
[02:45:49] <john> thank you very much for all the help!
[02:46:02] <john> I'll have to buy you a beer sometime
[02:46:08] <john> (I'm local to sfba)
[02:46:18] bz_sleep is in Chicago
[02:46:18] <@bz_sleep> for now
[02:46:26] <john> oh?
[02:46:29] <john> they don't let you guys rest?
[02:46:31] <@bz_sleep> Might be in the Bay area in a few weeks, for a wedding...
[02:46:41] <john> I'd just tatoo "created world's first browser - f** off"
[02:46:41] <@bz_sleep> hmm?
[02:46:57] <john> if I were bz :-)
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[02:47:09] <john> wait, chicago, it's 4am there?
[02:47:12] <john> christ
[02:47:15] <@bz_sleep> 2:47
[02:47:20] bz_sleep should _really_ sleep
[02:47:22] <john> ok, equally bad :-)
[02:47:24] <john> yeah, go sleep
[02:47:26] <@bz_sleep> g'night
[02:47:28] <john> g'nite
[02:48:14] <john> oh, for anyone still around
[02:48:25] <john> is there an easy way to use windows pipes from js?
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[02:48:45] <john> since it sounds like I'll have to try the hwnd approach
[02:48:52] <john> the SWF will somehow need to get a hold of the DOM
[02:49:09] <john> so, pass-by-value semantics over a windows named pipe is pretty much the only way to marshall things back and forth
[02:49:13] <john> thoughts...?
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[02:58:11] <Mardak> how do i get 2 flexible labels to have their text as far apart as possible? <hbox><label flex=1/><label flex=1/></hbox>
[02:58:37] <Mardak> the second label will have the text start near the middle.. so i could text-align: right, but would that affect other locales?
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[03:01:05] <Aleksej> hi
[03:04:15] <smaug> Mardak: could you add a spacer between labels?
[03:04:38] <smaug> Mardak: and put flex=1 only on that one
[03:04:58] <Mardak> is there a way to get labels to crop without making them flex or specifyinga size?
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[03:07:45] <Mardak> this kinda gives the desired behavior.. <hbox><label flex=10000 crop><label flex=1 crop>
[03:10:01] <Mardak> except it seems like flex affects which thing gets cropped "faster" as you shrink the space
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[03:12:52] <smaug> Mardak: put flex="1" to labels and flex="100000" to spacer ?
[03:13:05] <smaug> then you can use crop
[03:13:38] <Mardak> oooh yes
[03:13:52] <Mardak> i can even put different flexes on the labels to make them crop at a different rate
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[04:34:37] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.2 qm-win2k3-01 dep unit test' has changed state from Success to Burning.
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[04:54:29] <smaug> kaie: ping
[04:54:39] <kaie> smaug, pong
[04:54:56] <smaug> kaie: would you have time to look at bug 401906
[04:55:11] <smaug> some leaks in nsCertTree.cpp
[04:55:55] <smaug> I was thinking it might be easy to you to find the leaks. I don't know that code at all
[05:04:07] <kaie> after looking at it for the last 8 minutes I know that it will need a deeper look to find out what's going on
[05:05:08] <kaie> but I can't find where these objects are being freed, so maybe you already found the bug
[05:06:49] <kaie> smaug, array is a pointer to mDispInfo, you could test whether a NS_RELEASE is needed when entries get removed or the array cleared
[05:08:18] <kaie> smaug, I remember I changed mDispInfo to use nsRefPtr at the last minute. Maybe the NS_ADDREF are no longer necessary. Have you tried to remove the calls?
[05:08:53] <smaug> kaie: ah, nm, I have the patch
[05:08:59] <smaug> it is enough to remove those calls
[05:09:07] <kaie> great
[05:09:10] <smaug> for some reason I tested first only removing one of those
[05:09:22] <smaug> patch coming, you can review ,I assume
[05:09:28] <kaie> sure, will do
[05:09:29] <kaie> thanks
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[05:21:33] <smaug> kaie: does that code need sr+ or is a+ enought
[05:21:35] <smaug> enough
[05:23:03] <smaug> apparently sr isn't needed
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[05:54:46] <kaie> smaug, see second occurrent of PSM in http://www.mozilla.org/hacking/reviewers.html for the exact rules.
[05:55:42] <kaie> smaug, in short, patches usually should involve two PSM people, or one PSM person + sr
[05:56:11] <kaie> but I guess the change here is pretty obvious and one review should be ok
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[06:34:57] <pevanhoj> hi
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[07:09:40] <db48x> ok, this is getting a little bit rediculous
[07:10:02] <db48x> http://db48x.net/temp/Screenshot-131.png
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[07:13:16] <Aleksej> db48x: "Donate" is the same as "Sacrifice" in Russian. Now look: humans (counted), and a bloody-red "Sacrifice!" button.
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[07:15:57] <db48x> Aleksej: heh
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[07:18:08] <db48x> Aleksej: see also http://db48x.net/temp/Screenshot-128.png and http://db48x.net/temp/Screenshot-130.png
[07:18:30] <dwitte> so on linux, if my Sans-serif font is "sans-serif", it means firefox uses whatever the default sans-serif font is in the OS, right?
[07:18:56] <biesi> bah, tree is closed
[07:19:24] <db48x> dwitte: yea
[07:19:53] <db48x> actually, that might be wrong
[07:20:18] <db48x> I think it just means you have a font called Sans Serif
[07:20:30] <dwitte> hrm
[07:20:34] <db48x> Fedora 7 does
[07:20:36] <biesi> well sans-serif is a pseudofont provided by fontconfig
[07:20:38] <biesi> afaik
[07:20:49] <biesi> it maps to a real font eventually
[07:20:53] <db48x> hmm
[07:20:57] <dwitte> hrm, yeah, i'm on fc7 and can't find any OS definition of sans-serif
[07:21:00] <db48x> how is that mapping controlled?
[07:21:03] <dwitte> (in prefs and such)
[07:21:10] <biesi> $ fc-match sans-serif
[07:21:10] <biesi> DejaVu-Sans.ttf: "DejaVu Sans" "Book"
[07:21:21] dwitte tries
[07:21:45] <dwitte> $  fc-match sans-serif
[07:21:45] <dwitte> DejaVuLGCSans.ttf: "DejaVu LGC Sans" "Book"
[07:22:11] <biesi> it's controlled by /etc/fonts/fonts.conf, I think
[07:22:25] <biesi> the <alias><family>sans-serif</family> part
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[07:23:50] <dwitte> hmm, ok
[07:23:50] <dwitte> thanks
[07:24:02] dwitte comments in bug
[07:24:11] <biesi> what bug is that?
[07:25:07] <db48x> or /etc/fonts/conf.d/60-latin.conf
[07:26:09] <dwitte> biesi: 404698
[07:30:04] Aleksej wonders why Firefox is downloaded 5 times slower using the ISP’s HTTP proxy with GET mode.
[07:30:11] <Aleksej> than without proxy
[07:31:02] <Aleksej> So maybe it IS easier on the server <g>
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[07:37:18] sp3000 is confused by http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla/source/docshell/shistory/src/nsSHistory.cpp#223
[07:37:36] <sp3000> it seems to read "this can be misconfigured so we'll ignore it"?
[07:38:15] sp3000 doesn't readily follow that reasoning
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[07:40:14] sp3000 would understand "let's interpret -1 as use default"
[07:42:19] <Aleksej> While QBO doesn’t scale visually very well, Full Page Zoom makes it a bit worse.
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[07:42:44] <Aleksej> That is, if I select the "Mash Mozilla.org" style.
[07:42:50] <Aleksej> (View → Page Style)
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[07:50:43] sp3000 should probably look at blame for the code rather than the comment
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[07:53:51] sp3000 throws a bucket of hate at bug 126826
[07:56:24] <plasticmillion> is there no way to do case-insensitive comparisons of 16-bit Unicode strings on trunk?
[07:56:39] <plasticmillion> there's a CaseInsensitiveCompare comparator function but it looks to work only with 8-bit strings
[07:56:53] <biesi> #include "nsUnicharUtils.h"
[07:56:59] plasticmillion looks
[07:57:44] <plasticmillion> cool
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[08:10:30] <mcsmurf> hrm
[08:11:17] <mcsmurf> on trunk the browser window now always comes to the front when it updates the view while loading a webpage
[08:12:17] <mcsmurf> (you can reproduce that with two browser windows)
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[08:14:06] <Littlemutt_afk> been seeing that also since https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=405899 
[08:15:34] <mcsmurf> ah that comment there
[08:16:58] <mcsmurf> I saw that comment but didn't actually read the whole comment :o
[08:17:15] <Littlemutt_afk> :P
[08:17:23] <mcsmurf> because when I saw this line "Something else to check. I have been seeing the following:" I thought it's just someone pasting some random comment in this bug
[08:17:30] <mcsmurf> cause he saw that bug linked somewhere ;)
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[08:18:01] <Littlemutt_afk> I think that came from some MZ forum chatter 
[08:18:34] <mcsmurf> one bug for each new issue :)
[08:18:38] <Asztal> ah, there's a workaround... I can middle-click again
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[08:26:16] <shaver> I will give a gold star to someone who can point me to a URL describing the upcoming code freeze
[08:26:57] <Asztal> why hallo there, I think bug 406124 is a valid vulnerability... it exploited firefox 2.0.0.10 in my virtual machine and started a new process, "~.exe"
[08:27:46] <mcsmurf> shaver is your man
[08:28:02] <Asztal> you have 10 days, starting now
[08:28:17] <Asztal> ¬_¬
[08:28:57] <sp3000> not just any days
[08:29:13] <mcsmurf> work days
[08:29:26] <shaver> Asztal: can you comment to that effect in the bug?
[08:29:29] <sp3000> I suppose you could call it that...
[08:29:50] <shaver> though that would be a pretty surprising bug, I must say
[08:29:59] <Asztal> I think the domain the attack was hosted on got taken down :|
[08:30:15] <mcsmurf> why is that bug closed though
[08:30:20] <shaver> the attack is excerpted in the comment, no?
[08:30:28] <Asztal> the reporter thought it was fixed
[08:30:39] <Asztal> it loads an external page
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[08:30:43] <mcsmurf> "Saves disable JavaScript"
[08:30:45] <mcsmurf> uh
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[08:32:54] <shaver> nonetheless, the bug there doesn't describe your symptom at all
[08:33:36] <shaver> do you still have the virtual machine in question?
[08:34:03] <Asztal> I killed it to test it with XP completely patched :(
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[08:34:31] <shaver> so your report is "there was once, but no longer is, a page on the internet with unknown contents that caused firefox to run a new process called ~.exe"?
[08:37:30] <Asztal> I guess so. The domain the attack was hosted on was sffglkjszf.com, maybe the reporter could give more info.
[08:37:58] <shaver> could you add your comments to the bug?
[08:38:01] <shaver> pretty please?
[08:38:36] <db48x> the page it points to now won't do anything in firefox
[08:39:16] <Asztal> commented
[08:39:54] <Asztal> hmm, yes, it now leads to an IE exploit.
[08:40:32] <db48x> yea, that bug is invalid
[08:41:34] <Asztal> I do have the telephone number of the guy who owns the domain... Can't see him being helpful though.
[08:41:54] <Asztal> Especially since it's an invalid number
[08:42:28] <db48x> heh, why would you expect the whois info to be correct?
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[08:42:39] <Asztal> actually, there's 2 numbers :p
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[08:50:06] <chaos> hi
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[08:55:01] <chaos> who is making awesomebar?
[08:56:24] <shaver> seth is making it more awesome
[08:56:31] <shaver> seth spitzer
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[08:59:42] <Littlemutt_afk> you mean the chnages to the URL bar ?  step back from your monitor the 1st time you try it out - its In Your Face 
[09:00:12] <shaver> no, awesomebar is the autocompletion improvements
[09:00:46] <Littlemutt_afk> Yes, in today's nightly - 
[09:00:57] sp3000 should update to MULTILINE MADNESS
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[09:01:24] <sp3000> (caps are a great alternative to sleep.)
[09:02:57] <chaos> i just want to say that starring pages in autocompletion popup would be great function (but i don't know how much it should cost to cputime and/or memory)
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[09:12:48] <chaos> if that wasn't in plans about completion... (sorry, was interrupted)
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[09:25:01] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.2 qm-win2k3-01 dep unit test' has changed state from Burning to Success.
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[10:11:18] <micadeye1e> jwatt: ping
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[10:12:22] <jwatt> micadeye1e: pong
[10:12:46] <micadeye1e> glad, what's alex fritze id?
[10:13:00] <jwatt> he's not on mozilla irc
[10:13:20] <micadeye1e> ok. what irc does he use?
[10:13:31] <jwatt> uh, none really
[10:13:41] <micadeye1e> maybe i should explore that
[10:14:16] <micadeye1e> ok. have bin trying to reuse components in ZAP to implement my research work but proved abortive
[10:14:31] <shaver> email him?
[10:14:40] <jwatt> that's what I'd suggest
[10:14:41] <micadeye1e> guess he will be in better position to help. 
[10:15:04] <micadeye1e> I am used to doing so but rarely respond
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[10:15:24] <micadeye1e> thanks. have been trying to explore other areas
[10:15:29] <Littlemutt_afk> Yay!
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[10:16:21] <Littlemutt_afk> Green Tree - who want's to be the first to break it :P
[10:16:33] <jwatt> micadeye1e: stay online
[10:16:40] <jwatt> he'll join in a second
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[10:17:01] <micadeye1e> anyone that can help on this. i need to write xpcom that can interact with shared libraries or object files
[10:17:32] <afri> micadeye1e: jwatt said you were looking for me :-)
[10:17:39] <micadeye1e> yep
[10:17:49] <shaver> once you know what your API is for the interactions, wrapping it in XPCOM should be straightforward, I think
[10:18:02] <micadeye1e> afri: this is Mike from University of Cape Town, wrote u couple of times
[10:18:27] <micadeye1e> shaver: i will discuss that with u soon
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[10:18:44] <micadeye1e> afri: i tried re-using the ZAP components but failed.
[10:18:49] <afri> micadeye1e: sorry i've been so unresponsive... just didn't have time to think myself back into zap. i've been too busy with non-mozilla stuff.
[10:19:04] <micadeye1e> ok
[10:19:32] micadeye1e feels like seeing you face-to-face. he is stuck for 4mnths
[10:19:38] <afri> micadeye1e: let me did out your email...
[10:20:09] <KaiRo> zap looked cool when I frist saw it, unfortunately I haven't heard about it much after that FOSDEM presentation of afri :-/
[10:20:10] <smaug> hi afri 
[10:20:11] <micadeye1e> i copied all components into component dir of my extension but not all were loaded 
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[10:20:36] <afri> hi :-)
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[10:20:52] <micadeye1e> i tried viewing via xpcomviewer but one or two components crashed the browser
[10:21:04] <beaufour> afri! ;-)
[10:21:17] <micadeye1e> i will appreciate it if you can be of help
[10:21:35] <micadeye1e> am trying to achieve http session mobility using sip
[10:22:12] <micadeye1e> i have the UI of my extension working. but need to make FF interact with sip stack now
[10:22:38] <micadeye1e> at present, am exploring pjsip
[10:22:46] <micadeye1e> maybe it will work
[10:23:19] <Asztal> shaver: I think it's quite possible that the exploit I was before was just the .ANI bug. I'm not sure exactly how patched this VM is..
[10:23:44] <dveditzAway> or could be the WMP one, that's going around lately
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[10:24:28] <micadeye1e> afri: any help?
[10:24:38] <afri> micadeye1e: ... just reading your emails. I'll reply in a moment.
[10:24:43] <micadeye1e> ok
[10:24:50] <micadeye1e> shaver: on the wrapper
[10:25:15] <micadeye1e> i created shared library file
[10:26:03] <micadeye1e> and could call a function like sip_init() from any object file since i have the implementation in a shared lib.
[10:26:27] <micadeye1e> now i wanna be able to call same function sip_init() in xpcom 
[10:26:50] <micadeye1e> do i have to define sip_init() in the header again? if so what type?
[10:26:52] <shaver> what do you mean "in xpcom"?
[10:27:27] <shaver> there aren't any such facilities in the xpcom core
[10:27:38] <micadeye1e> i wan an xpcom to use the function i.e. to be able to call that function which has been implemented inthe shared lib.
[10:27:39] <shaver> so you'd need to write code to do the calling, and then you can wrap it in an xpcom interface
[10:27:45] <shaver> there's no such thing as "an xpcom"
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[10:28:17] <micadeye1e> thanks
[10:28:49] <micadeye1e> want my xpcom to interact with d shared lib.
[10:28:57] <dave> micadeye1e: take a look at how this is done with gles in canvas3d, which is probably similar to what you want to do: http://mxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/extensions/canvas3d/
[10:29:24] <shaver> you don't have "an xpcom"
[10:29:28] <micadeye1e> dave: thanks
[10:29:28] <shaver> I don't know what you have, but it's not that
[10:30:13] <micadeye1e> shaver: should be a xpcom?? -gram. or what?
[10:30:24] <shaver> xpcom is like http
[10:30:35] <shaver> it's a way to communicate between systems
[10:30:57] <shaver> if you want to use http to talk to a database, you have to write the code that talks to a database, and then put an HTTP interface on it
[10:31:13] <shaver> in your case, you need to write the code (exercise for the reader, NSPR may have helpful things for you?)
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[10:31:42] <shaver> and then when you have code that works, you can wrap it in an XPCOM interface so that other components can call it using the XPCOM protocol
[10:32:06] <micadeye1e> makes sense. thanks
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[10:33:17] <micadeye1e> so the code that interacts with the lib. has to b in any lang. or xpcom supported lang.(c++)
[10:33:46] <micadeye1e> hav got a simple c that uses the shared lib. 
[10:33:50] <micadeye1e> i tested it
[10:34:01] <micadeye1e> that means i need to wrap the c code now???
[10:34:39] <shaver> yes
[10:34:54] <shaver> you're implementing an XPCOM component that has that code in it
[10:36:05] <dave> micadeye1e: honestly, read this code http://mxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/extensions/canvas3d/src/nsCanvasRenderingContextGLES11.cpp
[10:36:18] <dave> and see glew.c
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[10:36:22] <micadeye1e> dave: am exploring the site
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[10:40:52] <micadeye1e> dave: am lost/rookie. looking for an implementation
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[10:41:58] <dave> micadeye1e: spend a *while* reading that code.  the interface is in public/, the implementation in src/ and there is code that calls it in js->xpcom in test/
[10:42:08] <dave> it's a great end-to-end example for you
[10:42:17] <dave> but put in the time!
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[10:44:42] <biesi> luser, ping
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[10:45:01] <micadeye1e> dave: ok
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[10:48:23] <micadeye1e> afri: still expecting your feedback also
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[10:48:51] <afri> micadeye1e: ... i've sent you 2 emails. haven't got them yet?
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[10:54:32] <TheSeer> how does one get informed if an attribute is changed on the element an xbl is bount to?
[10:54:57] <TheSeer> i know how to update an attribute if the property is changed.. but how to do so the other way around?
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[11:00:34] <smaug> TheSeer: I don't know any other way than use mutation events
[11:01:03] <smaug> add event listener for DOMAttrModified
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[11:01:57] <smaug> TheSeer: but remember, adding mutation event listeners makes pretty much all dom mutations a bit slower
[11:02:41] <@mkaply> Is there a quick way to clear a JS associative array, similar to setting length=0 on an indexed array?
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[11:03:33] <biesi> mkaply, I guess you don't want to just do foo={} ?
[11:04:05] <shaver> mkaply: no
[11:04:10] <@mkaply> That should work, shouldn't it. just foo = []?
[11:04:18] <biesi> {}
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[11:05:04] <biesi> I don't think you want [] for an assoc. array
[11:05:32] <TheSeer> mkaply:  arr=[]; ?
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[11:05:48] TheSeer is to slow :/
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[11:06:12] <TheSeer> biesi: [] would work anyway, woudln't it?
[11:06:21] <TheSeer> i mean, {} would be an object
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[11:06:41] <TheSeer> not that it makes much of a difference in js except that i's serializable
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[11:12:48] <_0xman> Hello, anyone have experience with the nspr api ?
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[11:15:01] <_0xman> i need to ask a few questions, .. please ?!
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[11:16:42] <Sander> _0xman: just ask your actual questions - that way people can see if they're qualified to answer, and if so, they'll speak up.
[11:17:03] <Sander> (You might have to be patient for an answer.)
[11:17:14] <Sander> (Since not everyone is looking in all the time.)
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[11:18:59] <stefanh> hmm, why is the tree still closed?
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[11:20:27] <bhearsum> oh, thats interesting. qm-winxp01 fixed itself
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[11:21:03] <Mossop> The new AI is working well then :)
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[11:22:01] <Mossop> Time to reopen?
[11:22:28] <stefanh> bhearsum: rcampbell did a full clobber afaics
[11:22:40] <stefanh> and after tha, it worked
[11:22:43] <stefanh> *that
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[11:23:23] <Mossop> No, the clobber didnt fix qm-winxp01
[11:23:27] <Mossop> Dunno what did
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[11:23:39] <stefanh> oh, ok
[11:23:42] <Mossop> Oh wait robcee reclobbered
[11:24:19] <Mossop> I'll reopen
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[11:27:44] <firebot> SeaMonkey has changed state from closed to open.
[11:27:49] <firebot> Firefox has changed state from closed to open.
[11:27:51] <firebot> Thunderbird has changed state from closed to open.
[11:27:53] <firebot> Camino has changed state from closed to open.
[11:28:33] rhelmer|afk [rhelmer@moz-B77DEAEB.mozilla.org] is now known as rhelmer
[11:30:38] <_0xman> the question is : anyone have experience with the nspr api ?         
[11:30:51] <shaver> many people do
[11:30:55] <_0xman> cool
[11:31:04] <_0xman> u too ?
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[11:31:43] <mcsmurf> heh
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[11:34:10] <_0xman> http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?p=3162972
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[11:35:51] <_0xman> any help will be appreciated .. 
[11:36:08] <zzxc> What could be causing nightly builds to open blank, untitled windows on Linux/Xorg?  (They usually appear upon pressing the back button, and closing a window kills the process.)  The only reference I can find to a similar problem is unconfirmed, long-winded, 1.8branch bug 368260.
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[11:37:06] <Pike> bsmedberg: can you do a python code review for me? bug 399014 is about l10n-merge, which builds upon compare-locales.py. The stuff that dynamis attached has basically an r+=me with comments, which are the follow up patches that I did on branch mentioned in the bug. So you get bonsai diffs per comment. Mostly merging in changes and refactoring
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[11:41:30] <Sander> _0xman: no, the actual question is: "i'm trying to filter HTTP headers but i can't figure out how to filter "POST" data .. it is sent right after any POST header, but i have no idea how to parse it because the data is different all the times.. How do i know when the PR_Write writes POST data ? Is there any function i can call to check this or is there any other way ?"
[11:41:50] <Sander> If you want to actually _receive_ help, you want to make it as easy as possible for people to help you.
[11:42:01] <_0xman> yeah thats why i gave you the link
[11:42:17] <Sander> which puts up a barrier; most people aren't going to bother clicking.
[11:43:19] <_0xman> well,  thanks for copying the question then
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[11:51:04] <_0xman> if they arent going to bother clicking, i bet they wont even bother replying, uh ?
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[11:51:31] <_0xman> if they cant be bothered to click*
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[11:52:21] <_0xman> You can find many Mozilla (and Firefox, Thunderbird, Camino, SeaMonkey, etc.) developers on IRC. You can talk with them in real time by logging on mozilla.org's chat server, irc.mozilla.org with an IRC client.
[11:52:27] <_0xman> lol
[11:52:32] <shaver> I don't think there's a way to observe those writes
[11:52:33] <db48x> oooh, the awesomebar gets awesomer
[11:52:35] <_0xman> bullshits
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[11:52:48] <shaver> I don't see one from reading the NSPR API, and I don't recall one
[11:52:58] <shaver> you can observe http requests via the observer service
[11:53:04] <_0xman> whats that
[11:53:35] <shaver> http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Setting_HTTP_request_headers has examples
[11:53:39] <_0xman> http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/nsIObserverService ?
[11:54:33] <_0xman> interesting..
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[11:56:42] <_0xman> is it an extension or something ?
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[11:57:53] <shaver> no
[11:58:02] <shaver> I do recommend reading the URL I postede
[11:58:14] <shaver> it has a good example to get you oriented
[11:58:16] <shaver> try the code out
[11:58:55] <_0xman> kk
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[12:01:52] <biesi> TheSeer, the difference is that the array would have a length property
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[12:02:34] <Mossop> Is breakpad even working :(
[12:03:22] <db48x> it's just behind
[12:03:25] <TheSeer> biesi: true
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[12:04:21] <biesi> ohh, an open tree
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[12:10:16] <_0xman> shaver, that isnt c code, right ? what code is it ?
[12:10:20] <WeirdAl> tree's open now?  nice.
[12:10:25] <shaver> it's JS
[12:10:30] <_0xman> and
[12:10:31] <WeirdAl> here comes the bittorrent of checkins :)
[12:10:32] <shaver> you can do the equivalent in C++, though
[12:10:35] <_0xman> why examples are in JS ?
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[12:10:44] <shaver> because they are?
[12:10:55] <shaver> more people write JS components than C++ ones
[12:11:40] <_0xman> is it better than c++ ?
[12:11:45] <db48x> heh
[12:11:49] <db48x> _0xman: yes, it is
[12:11:51] <WeirdAl> it's less likely to crash, _0xman 
[12:11:54] <biesi> it's not
[12:12:03] <WeirdAl> there's tradeoffs
[12:12:10] <biesi> a language w/o static typing can't be better than C++
[12:12:11] <db48x> no, js is always better than c++
[12:12:11] <_0xman> i think c is the best language
[12:12:27] <db48x> there is no room for equivocation in this matter
[12:12:27] <shaver> I'm sorry to hear that
[12:12:37] <mcsmurf> uh-oh, pointless discussion coming up
[12:12:37] <WeirdAl> I quote Scotty from Star Trek V:  "The right tool for the right job"
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[12:14:28] pamg applauds WeirdAl for reasonableness.
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[12:16:27] <_0xman> is the XPCOM initialized when firefox starts ? or is it something extra that need to be initialized manually later ?
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[12:16:47] <biesi> when firefox starts
[12:16:53] <db48x> _0xman: it's already started by then, yes
[12:16:59] <_0xman> k ty
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[12:17:59] <WeirdAl> I still need to find rob_strong for lunch sometime...
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[12:18:40] <WeirdAl> one of the things I hope to learn from him is how extmgr controls component files from extensions and adds them to the component manager
[12:18:55] <WeirdAl> (or vetoes one, based on extension incompatibility)
[12:18:58] <Mossop> Its the extensions.ini file
[12:18:59] <biesi> it is/has a directory service provider
[12:19:11] <Mossop> The EM just manages extensions.ini and then toolkit reads from that
[12:19:51] <db48x> the extension manager's directory service provider provides a list of all the locations that can contain components
[12:20:00] <db48x> which it builds from the list of installed extensions
[12:20:10] <WeirdAl> hm.
[12:20:41] <Mossop> Specifically: http://mxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/toolkit/xre/nsXREDirProvider.cpp#540
[12:20:50] <Gijs> is there going to be a beta 3?
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[12:21:06] <db48x> those directories get enumerated and any modules that are found get initialized. each module is required to register it's constituant components with the component manager
[12:21:12] <Mossop> Gijs: Yes
[12:21:45] <biesi> only b1 has been released so far right?
[12:21:47] <WeirdAl> db48x: it's the finding modules part that interests me.
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[12:21:56] <Mossop> biesi: Yeah
[12:22:05] <WeirdAl> but Mossop's link should help :)
[12:22:18] <db48x> WeirdAl: it looks for shared libraries, and checks to see if they export NS_whatsit()
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[12:23:46] <db48x> NSGetModule(), that's the one
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[12:24:28] <WeirdAl> db48x: except in the case of xpconnect :)
[12:24:37] <biesi> WeirdAl, no
[12:24:40] <Mossop> Ugh, damn you Socorro :(
[12:24:44] <biesi> WeirdAl, xpconnect works the same
[12:24:58] <WeirdAl> biesi: I know it looks for NSGetModule in the JS code...
[12:25:24] <WeirdAl> again, my question was about how to get from extension validation to grabbing the component file
[12:25:30] <db48x> js works basically the same way. when it finds a js file, it interprets it and tries to call NSGetModule()
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[12:25:46] <db48x> WeirdAl: that's the directory service provider
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[12:27:01] <db48x> xpcom asks the directory service for a list of all the directories that might contain xpcom modules that need registering
[12:27:25] <db48x> the directory service polls each of the registered directory service providers to see if any of them can supply such a list
[12:27:52] <db48x> the extension manager includes just such a provider, and it provides a list of directories that is based off of the installed and enabled extensions
[12:28:36] <WeirdAl> ok
[12:32:05] <Gijs> man... I wish bugzilla did set operations on buglists
[12:32:07] <Mossop> Technically it isnt the EM that includes a provider. The toolkit dir provider just reads a file that the EM has generated with a list of directories in it
[12:33:13] <Gijs> also, is the fact that in Firefox 2, I'm getting a lock icon with a line through it for BMO a BMO problem?
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[12:33:22] <Gijs> (it's claiming parts of the page were not encrypted)
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[12:36:07] <bent> is bugzilla down for anyone else?
[12:36:14] <crowder> bent: No.  Only you.
[12:36:17] <_0xman> i cant seem to find "nsIVariant.h" inside the firefox 2.0.0.10 release        ... where is it ?    
[12:36:18] <dholbert> it's fine here
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[12:36:25] <bent> bah, now it's back
[12:36:28] <bent> network burp
[12:36:28] <crowder> heh
[12:36:57] <Gijs> _0xman: that file's automatically generated from the .idl at build time
[12:37:05] <Gijs> the idl is here: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla1.8/source/xpcom/ds/nsIVariant.idl
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[12:37:16] <Gijs> (should be in mozilla/xpcom/ds/ in your tree)
[12:37:31] <_0xman> how do i link that file with visual studio ?
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[12:38:52] <_0xman> yes, it s there.. 
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[12:39:39] <ctalbert> sspitzerMsgMe: You're my hero!  I love the new autocomplete!
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[12:46:25] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.2 qm-win2k3-01 dep unit test' has changed state from Success to Burning.
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[13:06:39] <cbarrett> Oh you're kidding.
[13:06:52] <cbarrett> Every time I go to check this patch in, the tree closes or goes on fire.
[13:07:49] <smaug> why search bar autocomplete doesn't work
[13:08:36] <ss> cbarrett: Check in anyway!
[13:09:02] redfive [redfive@346ECF13.BBC87276.3E8C195A.IP] has joined #developers
[13:09:29] <cbarrett> ss: too late, I've already said I noticed the red.
[13:09:34] <cbarrett> Don't have plausible deniablity anymore.
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[13:10:00] <shebs> you could say it was a bug in gfx - green rendered as red
[13:10:22] <cbarrett> I was talking with dietrich about this  yesterday
[13:10:25] <dholbert> cbarrett: Looks like the red is a fluke - see the star
[13:10:37] <cbarrett> you could totally change the stylesheet from the admin stuff
[13:10:40] <cbarrett> and nobody would know who it was
[13:10:51] <cbarrett> there's no trail for any of that stuff
[13:10:53] <db48x> heh
[13:11:05] <cbarrett> Change it so everything is all green, all the time.
[13:11:16] <cbarrett> Easiest sherrifing day ever.
[13:11:19] <db48x> the test results would be different
[13:11:28] <db48x> or missing
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[13:11:33] <cbarrett> Pff, who looks at that?
[13:11:37] <dholbert> tinderstatus / firebot would probably still complain, too
[13:11:41] <cbarrett> ban firebot.
[13:11:45] <db48x> heh
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[13:12:08] <db48x> surely everybody checks the performance tests to make sure they didn't regress anything
[13:12:20] <cbarrett> verily.
[13:13:04] <cbarrett> alright welll
[13:13:09] <cbarrett> if it's good enough for peterv and rob_strong.
[13:13:13] <cbarrett> it's good enough for me.
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[13:13:47] <dholbert> cbarrett:  one sec, lemme break the tree before you check in
[13:15:02] <dholbert> (kidding)
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[13:15:26] <rob_strong> cbarrett: that box doesn't compile the code I checked in and the box that does is green
[13:16:34] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.2 qm-win2k3-01 dep unit test' has changed state from Burning to Success.
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[13:18:33] <cbarrett> rob_strong: Yeah, my fix is a mac only fix too
[13:19:05] <rob_strong> cbarrett: and that was one of the sporadic failures and it just went green. :)
[13:19:17] <cbarrett> indeed.
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[13:25:08] <Mossop> So how many hours does it take for a breakpad report to show up on the server now?
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[13:43:27] <_FrnchFrgg_> is dtrace supposed to be mandatory on linux now ?
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[13:43:47] <Mossop> I dont think so, dbus yes
[13:43:49] <crowder> _FrnchFrgg_: That's an oddly phrased non-specific question
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[13:44:26] <_FrnchFrgg_> I mean I had no computer for a while, and now I tried to build Firefox again, and it chokes on a call to dtrace.
[13:44:43] <_FrnchFrgg_> I tried ac_add_options --disable-dtrace, to no avail.
[13:44:49] <Mossop> Hmm dtrace is disabled by default
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[13:46:09] <_FrnchFrgg_> Ok, so in fact, it may be that ./configure wasn't properly updated.
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[13:46:42] <Gijs> what if I am in a debugger, I have an nsCOMPtr to a dom node, and I want its textcontent? I'm trying to use the command window but am failing to make it tell me something useful :s
[13:46:43] <_FrnchFrgg_> configure isn't included in the hg repository ?
[13:46:52] <Gijs> (this is in VS .NET 2003, if it matters)
[13:49:03] <_0xman> g2g , thanks guys for your help
[13:50:07] <_0xman> thanks shaver, bye
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[13:50:23] <shaver> later
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[14:00:59] <Aleksej__> hm
[14:01:19] <Aleksej__> Are there metalinks of Mozilla files available anywhere?
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[14:01:56] <shaver> not to my knowledge
[14:02:28] <Aleksej__> ah, metalinker.org says the patch has not yet been integrated into Bouncer.
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[14:08:37] <_FrnchFrgg_> How do I disable dtrace ?
[14:08:54] <_FrnchFrgg_> After and update of ./configure
[14:09:26] <_FrnchFrgg_> I get configure: error: dtrace enabled but sys/std.h not found
[14:09:34] <sean_t23> Is Firebot part of bugzilla?
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[14:11:25] <Wolf> No. He's a mozbot.. his email is configured as a global watcher on bmo though. so he gets all bugmail.
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[14:13:15] <sean_t23> Wolf: thanks
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[14:25:00] <firebot> Firefox: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.8.4 qm-xserve01 dep unit test' has changed state from Success to Test Failed.
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[14:33:03] <firebot> Camino: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.10.0 boxset Depend CmTrunk' has changed state from Success to Test Failed.
[14:34:39] <Mossop> bsmedberg: ping
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[14:34:48] <reed> so, who broke mochitest
[14:35:03] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.2 qm-win2k3-01 dep unit test' has changed state from Success to Test Failed.
[14:35:22] <reed> roc, vlad: either one of you or me
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[14:36:16] <gerv> Anyone know why qm-xserve01 is orange?
[14:36:50] <reed> no, I'm looking into it now
[14:38:05] <reed> the mochitest for either 398243 or 401662 is crashing
[14:38:18] <gerv> OK, thanks.
[14:38:45] <roc> yep
[14:38:50] <reed> hmm, I see a problem
[14:39:03] <roc> hmm?
[14:39:12] <reed> so, philor stuck a mochitest in between the two mochitests for 398243
[14:39:13] <roc> so who is it?
[14:39:36] <reed> originally added as
[14:39:36] <reed> +		test_bug398243.html \
[14:39:36] <reed> +		formReset.html \
[14:39:42] <reed> philor did
[14:39:42] <reed>  		test_bug398243.html \
[14:39:43] <reed> +                test_bug401662.html \
[14:39:43] <reed>  		formReset.html \
[14:39:58] <reed> that seems wrong
[14:40:06] <reed> but I doubt that's the problem here
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[14:40:35] <shaver> is there trailing whitespace?
[14:41:07] <firebot> Firefox: 'Linux bl-bldlnx03 Depend fx-linux-tbox perf test' has changed state from Success to Test Failed.
[14:41:09] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.1 bl-bldxp01 Depend fx-win32-tbox perf test' has changed state from Success to Test Failed.
[14:41:12] <firebot> Firefox: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.8.4 bm-xserve08 Depend Universal Nightly' has changed state from Success to Test Failed.
[14:41:25] <roc> so probably not me right?
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[14:41:39] <reed> ah
[14:41:48] <reed> philor didn't commit the patch that's in his bug
[14:41:52] <reed> so, n/m about that
[14:41:59] <reed> roc: dunno, could be
[14:42:15] <reed> vlad fixed a cairo build issue
[14:42:41] <reed> Tp is crashing
[14:42:57] <reed> that looks like you
[14:44:23] <reed> roc: ^^
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[14:45:28] <reed> mento: please don't do that
[14:45:34] <reed> mento: please file a bug to fix cvs log messages
[14:45:36] <mento> reed: do what?
[14:45:38] <reed> instead of committing again like that
[14:45:42] <reed> that's not recommended
[14:45:44] <mento> reed: oops, sorry
[14:45:50] <mento> that was recommended last time i screwed up a message
[14:45:53] <mento> noted for the future
[14:45:59] <reed> we have a new and improved way now
[14:46:02] <reed> that isn't documented
[14:46:03] <reed> :(
[14:46:14] <mento> file a bug to document it
[14:47:58] <reed> guess it would go on wikimo
[14:48:00] <reed> but not sure where
[14:48:28] <reed> mento: and please don't check-in on orange :)
[14:48:30] <shaver> wiki.mozilla.org/Fixing_CVS_Commit_Messages
[14:48:40] <mento> reed: uh, wasn't orange when i checked in
[14:48:56] <reed> mento: mac was orange for two entire cycles
[14:49:05] <reed> before your first landing
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[14:49:30] <reed> shaver: sounds good
[14:50:24] <mento> reed: pretty sure it wasn't - tinderbox mail delay, maybe
[14:50:33] <mento> it sure looks like that now
[14:50:35] <reed> roc: figured out which of the two patches you're going to backout?
[14:50:35] <mento> but i did check
[14:50:42] <reed> back out*
[14:50:52] <reed> mento: k, cool
[14:51:09] <firebot> SeaMonkey: 'WINNT 5.2 sea-win32-tbox Depend Nightly' has changed state from Success to Test Failed.
[14:51:10] <firebot> SeaMonkey: 'Linux cb-sea-linux-tbox Depend Nightly' has changed state from Success to Test Failed.
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[14:51:32] <roc> yeah
[14:51:33] <roc> I'm backing out
[14:51:42] <roc> 403426
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[14:52:50] <reed> k
[14:52:55] <roc> done
[14:53:36] <reed> KaiRo: orange means orange
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[14:55:11] <firebot> Firefox: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.8.4 qm-xserve01 dep unit test' has changed state from Test Failed to Burning.
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[14:57:23] <gerv> Hmm. Not an improvement.
[14:57:37] <reed> roc: red is you
[14:57:43] <reed> you backed out too much? :)
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[14:58:31] <reed> oh, you forgot to back out the content changes
[14:59:11] <firebot> Firefox: 'Linux qm-centos5-01 dep unit test' has changed state from Success to Test Failed.
[14:59:14] <firebot> Firefox: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.8.4 bm-xserve08 Depend Universal Nightly' has changed state from Test Failed to Burning.
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[15:01:11] <firebot> SeaMonkey: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.8.1 cb-xserve02 Depend Universal Nightly' has changed state from Success to Burning.
[15:01:13] <firebot> Firefox: 'Linux qm-centos5-01 dep unit test' has changed state from Test Failed to Burning.
[15:01:16] <firebot> Firefox: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.8.4 bm-xserve11 Depend Debug + Leak Test' has changed state from Success to Burning.
[15:01:21] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.2 qm-win2k3-01 dep unit test' has changed state from Test Failed to Burning.
[15:01:21] <KaiRo> reed: hrm, oops, I should better realize that fact as well  when realizing that inspector L10n lives in main cvs
[15:04:34] <roc> missed a couple of files :-(
[15:04:37] <roc> fixed, hopefully
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[15:07:09] <NeilAway> bah, Enn broke autoscroll on trunk
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[15:09:15] <firebot> Thunderbird: 'WINNT 5.2 tbnewref-win32- Depend release' has changed state from Success to Burning.
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[15:13:08] <Mossop> mfinkle: ping
[15:13:16] <firebot> Camino: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.10.0 boxset Depend CmTrunk' has changed state from Test Failed to Burning.
[15:14:47] <mfinkle> Mossop: pong
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[15:15:03] <Mossop> mfinkle: When do you think quit-application-granted should fire?
[15:15:15] <firebot> SeaMonkey: 'Linux nye Depend bloat' has changed state from Success to Burning.
[15:15:18] <firebot> Firefox: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.8.4 bm-xserve11 Depend Debug + Leak Test' has changed state from Burning to Success.
[15:15:18] <Mossop> Before or after all windows have been closed?
[15:15:49] <mfinkle> before I guess, so windows can do there closed code (if any)
[15:16:06] <mfinkle> *their close down code*
[15:16:13] <Mossop> now bear in mind that closing a window may open a new window thus stopping the quit process but we can't know that before closing the windows :)
[15:16:56] <mfinkle> yeah, but I'd still say "before"
[15:17:07] <Mossop> ok good
[15:17:14] <mfinkle> most native UI frameworks I've used do it that way too
[15:17:16] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.2 fxdbug-win32-tb Depend Debug + Leak Test' has changed state from Success to Burning.
[15:17:46] <Mossop> At the moment we're sending it when we're not even going to quit at all :)
[15:18:20] <mfinkle> ugh
[15:18:38] <mfinkle> "granted"
[15:19:08] <Mossop> Yeah. Thankfully its a trivial fix
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[15:23:20] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.1 qm-winxp01 dep unit test' has changed state from Success to Burning.
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[15:25:20] <firebot> Firefox: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.8.4 qm-xserve01 dep unit test' has changed state from Burning to Success.
[15:25:58] <reed> yay
[15:26:01] db48x frowns at bug 406108
[15:26:03] <reed> roc's backout fixed it
[15:26:28] <roc> fixed what
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[15:26:32] <roc> Tp crash?
[15:26:37] <roc> I don't think that's known yet
[15:27:05] <roc> oh, fixed mochitest crash
[15:27:09] <reed> :)
[15:27:44] <gerv> Safe to check in (patch to license.html), or wait for less red?
[15:28:09] <KaiRo> I guess fixing mochitest gives us a high chance of Tp also being fixed
[15:28:28] <Mossop> Hmm, I've been waiting 4 hours for my breakpad crash report to show up on the server
[15:28:31] <roc> yeah
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[15:29:14] <db48x> roc: so, how should embedding be fixed for bug 406108/404290?
[15:29:54] <roc> my patch is OK
[15:30:07] dmose [dmose@moz-334F2010.mountainview.mozilla.com] has quit IRC: Quit: dmose
[15:30:09] <db48x> except that it leaves the bug unfixed in some cases
[15:30:13] <roc> handles embedders who don't return a main widget
[15:30:14] <roc> yeah
[15:30:23] <roc> embedders need to fix that by returning a main widget, I guess
[15:30:34] <roc> hmm
[15:30:39] <roc> maybe that's not good
[15:30:54] <roc> can we get a widget for the window opener?
[15:31:08] bc [bclary@moz-334F2010.mountainview.mozilla.com] has joined #developers
[15:31:46] <jorendorff> firebot: :t \ y . [x | x <- y]
[15:31:51] <firebot> jorendorff: Sorry, I've no idea what 't \ y . [x | x <- y]' might be.
[15:33:23] <firebot> Thunderbird: 'WINNT 5.2 tbnewref-win32- Depend release' has changed state from Burning to Success.
[15:34:43] <db48x> roc: http://mxr-test.landfill.bugzilla.org/mozilla/source/embedding/browser/webBrowser/nsDocShellTreeOwner.cpp#1453
[15:34:46] <db48x> like that maybe?
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[15:35:27] <jorendorff> firebot: sorry
[15:35:29] <firebot> heh
[15:35:37] <jorendorff> firebot: :t \ y -> [x | x <- y]
[15:35:42] <firebot> jorendorff: Sorry, I've no idea what 't \ y -> [x | x <- y]' might be.
[15:36:37] <reed> jorendorff: ?
[15:36:57] <db48x> roc: but with GetWidget instead of GetNearestWidget
[15:37:24] <firebot> SeaMonkey: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.8.1 cb-xserve02 Depend Universal Nightly' has changed state from Burning to Success.
[15:38:01] <roc> if you have the window opener docshell, just go docshell -> presshell -> devicecontext
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[15:39:25] <firebot> Firefox: 'Linux bl-bldlnx03 Depend fx-linux-tbox perf test' has changed state from Test Failed to Success.
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[15:40:19] <reed> roc: perf regression
[15:40:32] <jorendorff> reed: just curious if firebot really knows everything.
[15:40:39] <jorendorff> firebot: apparently not
[15:40:41] <reed> jorendorff: lol
[15:40:45] <firebot> jorendorff: Sorry, I've no idea what 'apparently not' might be.
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[15:42:42] <firebot> jorendorff: bsmedberg knew: well, duh. t \ y -> [x | x <- y] is 42
[15:42:59] <reed> lol
[15:43:00] <jorendorff> thanks bsmedberg 
[15:43:26] <firebot> Firefox: 'Linux qm-centos5-01 dep unit test' has changed state from Burning to Success.
[15:43:29] <roc> whaaat?
[15:43:33] <jorendorff> firebot: what is word?
[15:43:34] Archaeopteryx [itsme@moz-23C61FA9.cust.blue-cable.de] has quit IRC: Ping timeout
[15:43:34] <firebot> jorendorff: Maybe word is err...hey, what's botbot doing with that shovel
[15:43:41] <db48x> haha
[15:43:56] <reed> roc: 13ms on Ts
[15:43:59] <roc> where?
[15:44:02] <reed> linux perf
[15:44:07] <reed> but it may just be a firstrun thing
[15:44:10] <reed> after being orange
[15:44:10] <roc> I've only got 2 patches in
[15:44:19] <roc> they're both tiny and I refuse to believe they could affect perf
[15:44:39] <reed> yeah, might not be you and might not be a regression at all
[15:44:42] <reed> we'll see
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[15:45:26] <firebot> Firefox: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.8.4 bm-xserve08 Depend Universal Nightly' has changed state from Burning to Success.
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[15:47:24] <cbarrett> http://www.win.tue.nl/hashclash/Nostradamus/ Wow. Twelve PDFs that all display different contents but have a single MD5 sum.
[15:47:45] <reed> cf_nthomas: ping
[15:47:51] rhelmer|afk [rhelmer@moz-B77DEAEB.mozilla.org] is now known as rhelmer
[15:47:54] <reed> rhelmer: ping
[15:47:58] <rhelmer> reed: yo
[15:48:04] <rhelmer> sup reeeed
[15:48:06] <reed> rhelmer: bl-bldxp01 looks like it kicked over
[15:48:14] <reed> hasn't tested in over an hour
[15:48:27] <rhelmer> reed: is there a bug on it yet?
[15:48:29] <reed> got a sec to look at it, or should I file a blocker?
[15:48:34] <reed> no, I just noticed it
[15:48:40] <reed> and then you went non-afk!
[15:48:40] <reed> :)
[15:48:42] <rhelmer> heh
[15:48:57] <rhelmer> reed: go ahead and file and assign it to me
[15:49:00] <reed> k
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[15:49:38] <rhelmer> i just want the record of it, but there's no reason to waste someone in IT's time if i can just look at it
[15:50:06] <rhelmer> also don't want the tree closed while it sits in the queue
[15:50:07] <rhelmer> etc. etc.
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[15:51:12] <rhelmer> hmm we've got crash reporter dialogs 
[15:51:18] <rhelmer> thought that was turned off
[15:51:19] <reed> ugh
[15:51:20] <reed> yeah
[15:51:34] reed thought so, too
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[15:52:20] <rhelmer> reed: i closed out the crash reporter dialogs; bone cho test is running now
[15:52:31] fantasai [fantasai@moz-989A079D.info] has joined #developers
[15:52:54] <reed> rhelmer: ok, thanks.
[15:52:58] rhelmer comments in the bug
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[15:53:32] <bsmedberg> oh wow, the urlbar is unfamiliar and huge today!
[15:53:44] <reed> bsmedberg: using the proto theme?
[15:53:49] <bsmedberg> no
[15:53:52] <reed> hmm
[15:54:10] <cbarrett> two line autocomplete landed
[15:54:15] <db48x> yea
[15:54:16] <db48x> I like it
[15:54:23] <cbarrett> It's slow on my machine :\
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[15:55:00] <rhelmer> there it goes
[15:55:29] <rhelmer> yeah makes sense if we had a crash during test and we're not disabling breakpad correctly
[15:56:02] <bsmedberg> db48x: it feels very odd to me... the titles font is larger and the url is smaller, and that makes me feel weird
[15:56:17] <db48x> heh
[15:56:38] <db48x> I think the idea is to get you to match on the title more often
[15:56:51] <bsmedberg> is it green because I like the color green and chose some pref for it, or is that the default?
[15:56:59] <db48x> dunno about that
[15:57:02] <reed> default
[15:57:10] <reed> you can turn off the two-line view
[15:57:12] <reed> it's a perf
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[16:07:23] <reed> rhelmer: ping?
[16:07:35] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.2 fxdbug-win32-tb Depend Debug + Leak Test' has changed state from Burning to Success.
[16:07:38] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.1 qm-winxp01 dep unit test' has changed state from Burning to Success.
[16:07:39] <firebot> Camino: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.10.0 maya Depend CmTrunk' has changed state from Success to Test Failed.
[16:08:03] <reed> rhelmer: could you check bl-bldlnx03 to make sure it doesn't have a window up that's messing up the perf results?
[16:09:35] <firebot> SeaMonkey: 'Linux cb-sea-linux-tbox Depend Nightly' has changed state from Test Failed to Success.
[16:09:49] <rhelmer> reed: looks fine to me, browser is the only app running
[16:09:59] <reed> hmmz :/
[16:10:09] <rhelmer> reed: it is running full screen, not sure if that's a new thing or not, i doubt it..
[16:10:13] WeirdAl [chatzilla@moz-44BEB5A5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #developers
[16:10:14] <reed> k
[16:10:16] <reed> thanks
[16:10:19] <WeirdAl> bsmedberg: ping
[16:10:23] <bsmedberg> WeirdAl: pong
[16:11:11] <WeirdAl> bsmedberg: Waldo asks in bug 398579 if the bug morphed from chrome imports to file imports.  I can't find any solid backing to dispute that, but I thought that was the whole point of the bug, to support chrome and file imports.
[16:11:21] <WeirdAl> did I drop the ball?
[16:11:37] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.1 bl-bldxp01 Depend fx-win32-tbox perf test' has changed state from Test Failed to Success.
[16:11:38] <bsmedberg> I suspect that we only ended up supporting file: imports
[16:11:41] WeirdAl notes it's awfully hard to test chrome URI's in a xpcshell test
[16:12:04] <bsmedberg> because I'm pretty sure chrome: URIs don't ever QI to nsIFileURL, even when they map to a nsIFileURL
[16:12:19] <WeirdAl> in other words, I screwed up all right.
[16:12:22] <WeirdAl> :'(
[16:12:31] <bsmedberg> well... depends
[16:12:40] <bsmedberg> you solved a problem
[16:12:47] <WeirdAl> but not the one the bug was filed ofr
[16:12:49] <WeirdAl> for
[16:12:51] <bsmedberg> the problem didn't precisely match the bug summary, so who cares?
[16:13:36] <WeirdAl> I care.  I agree being able to import from chrome is nice.
[16:13:43] <WeirdAl> especially for extensions
[16:14:20] <bsmedberg> feel free to file a new bug on it, then... it's quite a bit harder, I think
[16:14:22] <db48x> as long as the number of problems went down, it was a success
[16:14:52] <WeirdAl> chrome can never be a remote URL, right?
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[16:16:04] <bsmedberg> WeirdAl: well... officially it can't, but you could trick it if you really wanted to
[16:16:15] <bsmedberg> it certainly doesn't have to map to only a file or JAR
[16:16:17] <WeirdAl> great...
[16:16:30] <WeirdAl> that gives me a whole lot of incentive NOT to permit chrome imports
[16:16:43] <WeirdAl> especially if we can't guarantee the source is local
[16:16:47] <bsmedberg> you could have a chrome URI map to a data: if you were evil
[16:17:21] <WeirdAl> *sigh* The problem is that imported modules have full privileges, so that means opening a security hole if it can reach out to the net
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[16:18:44] <KaiRo> db48x: any chance you get to look into bug 394170?
[16:19:49] <db48x> that'd be pretty easy to do
[16:20:28] <reed> gerv: you could probably land a text-only change
[16:20:35] <gerv> Thanks.
[16:21:10] <KaiRo> db48x: yes, I'd hope so :)
[16:21:15] <bsmedberg> WeirdAl: please ignore that case, it's bad practice and kinda-prevented
[16:21:30] <bsmedberg> WeirdAl: anything you can load from a chrome URL already has full privileges
[16:21:36] <reed> if qm-win2k3-01 doesn't go green this time, I'll file a blocker
[16:21:40] <KaiRo> db48x: I heard it's probably a reason why Sander doesn't use trunk yet, and I'd like to have as many testers on trunk as possible :)
[16:21:42] <reed> robcee: ping?
[16:22:13] <WeirdAl> bsmedberg: I hope you're wrong about that, because one of our test apps loads a chrome URL into a content-primary frame.
[16:22:17] damons [gnubeard@moz-AFBF1588.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #developers
[16:22:23] <Mossop> luser: ping
[16:22:24] <bsmedberg> WeirdAl: wrong about what?
[16:22:36] <WeirdAl> "anything you can load from a chrome URL already has full privileges"
[16:23:19] <WeirdAl> <iframe type="content-primary" src="chrome://foo/content/foo.html"/>
[16:23:40] <bsmedberg> WeirdAl: what about it? that certainly has full privs
[16:23:41] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.1 talos trunk qm-pxp03' has changed state from Success to Burning.
[16:23:41] <WeirdAl> if that html page isn't in the sandbox, I need to know yesterday
[16:24:01] <bsmedberg> certainly absolutely without a doubt
[16:24:46] <WeirdAl> *sigh* Does a resource:// URI under the same conditions live outside sandbox?
[16:24:55] <bsmedberg> kinda-sorta
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[16:25:03] <WeirdAl> argh
[16:25:36] bsmedberg [bsmedberg@A50FC3B9.17E038BA.1D0CFEC6.IP] is now known as bsmedberg-away
[16:25:36] <reed> bhearsum: ping
[16:25:41] <reed> alice: ping
[16:25:44] <WeirdAl> in other words, I've exposed a security hole in something I haven't even checked in yet.
[16:25:53] <db48x> KaiRo: try this
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[16:25:59] <db48x> gLinkView.addRow([getValueText(elem), url, gStrings.linkX, ""]);
[16:25:59] <db48x>    }
[16:25:59] <db48x> +  else if (elem instanceof HTMLScriptElement)
[16:25:59] <db48x> +  {
[16:25:59] <db48x> +    gLinkView.addRow([elem.type || elem.language, elem.source || "inline", "script"]);
[16:25:59] <db48x> +  }
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[16:27:04] <alice> reed: did you just ping me?
[16:27:14] <reed> alice: I did.
[16:27:22] <reed> alice: qm-pxp03 looks like it is unable to delete files?
[16:27:24] <reed> or something
[16:27:28] <reed> it keeps failing
[16:27:31] <reed> can you poke it, please? :)
[16:27:33] <alice> okay.  having a little bit or irc weirdness for a minute there
[16:27:52] <florian> db48x: what's the point of displaying inline scripts in the links tab?
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[16:29:17] <KaiRo> db48x: hmm, I need to go to bed soon today, but I can remark it in the bug :)
[16:29:34] <alice> reed: looks like the browser crashed.  i restarted the slave, but if the browser is crashy this may happen again
[16:29:37] <KaiRo> db48x: and look into that early next week
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[16:29:41] <alice> reed: last time i saw this it was due to a regression
[16:29:50] <db48x> florian: dunno. seemed like a good idea when I wrote it
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[16:29:57] <db48x> KaiRo: I'll attach a more complete patch
[16:30:37] <KaiRo> db48x: ok, thanks
[16:30:37] <schrep__> vlad, ping - you in the office?
[16:31:10] <db48x> hmm
[16:31:21] <db48x> I wonder if anyone actually uses the defer attribute on the script tag
[16:31:35] <Sander> db48x: just to make certain, would that include javascript files which have been loaded dynamically by other javascript?
[16:31:43] <firebot> SeaMonkey: 'Linux nye Depend bloat' has changed state from Burning to Success.
[16:32:18] Sander has seen tutorials recommending to use defer for stuff that needs to have a complete dom tree existing - so I suspect it'll be out there in the wild, yeah
[16:32:45] <db48x> Sander: yes
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[16:33:01] <Sander> perfect! :)
[16:35:46] WeirdAl kicks himself - he's fine, he's loading a http URL instead of a chrome URL
[16:36:58] <tor_> sweet - told ff to upgrade itself to 2.0.0.11 and it crashes
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[16:38:20] <cbarrett> um
[16:38:20] <cbarrett> so
[16:38:21] <cbarrett> the tree.
[16:38:52] <reed> cbarrett: linux has a perf regression
[16:38:55] <reed> but I'm not sure if I believe it
[16:39:20] <cbarrett> I more meant windows being on fire.
[16:39:33] <cbarrett> Also if there is a regression shouldn't we close the tree?
[16:39:44] <reed> alice just kicked qm-pxp03
[16:39:54] <reed> alice: will it build automatically?
[16:39:55] <firebot> SeaMonkey: 'WINNT 5.2 sea-win32-tbox Depend Nightly' has changed state from Test Failed to Success.
[16:40:38] <alice> reed: how did you kick it?  
[16:40:48] <reed> I didn't
[16:40:54] <reed> I said you did
[16:40:54] <reed> :)
[16:41:02] <reed> as per your earlier comment
[16:41:17] <alice> oh sorry.  looked like a message directed at me, instead of about me
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[16:42:33] <alice> reed: it will pick up the next available build
[16:43:06] <alice> reed: qm-pxp01 is in the middle of a run, so it will be the next to report
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[16:43:33] <reed> k
[16:45:02] Callek [chatzilla@moz-ABFFE73F.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #developers
[16:45:57] <db48x> why do camino users want popup windows anyway?
[16:45:59] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.1 talos trunk qm-pxp01' has changed state from Success to Burning.
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[16:46:15] <db48x> we should just disable them. that would fix it
[16:47:04] <reed> the red for qm-pxp01 is expected
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[16:56:30] <Joshua> reed: how often do you go through the checkin-needed lists?
[16:56:49] <reed> at least once a day
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[16:57:40] <Joshua> for mailnews bugs?
[16:58:24] <reed> depends on how I'm feeling... you're Pidgeot18?
[16:58:39] <Joshua> yep
[16:58:50] <reed> you're on my list
[16:59:02] <reed> tree is closed now
[16:59:10] <Joshua> ah
[16:59:22] <reed> even though mailnews doesn't really count, but I'm not going to land
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[17:08:43] <@bz_sleep> Is soccoro really over 24 hours behind?  :(
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[17:09:38] <Mossop> Hasn't got my report from 6 hours ago, so quite possibly
[17:10:25] jpb wonders if |#define MOZ_EXPERIMENTAL_WRITEABLE_LDAP 1| was meant to be part of 406198
[17:11:14] <ss> Yeah, I submitted one yesterday afternoon.
[17:11:19] <ss> About 24 hours ago.
[17:11:24] <ss> Still nothing.
[17:11:35] <reed> do we have a bug tracking this?
[17:11:37] <reed> why isn't it a blocker?
[17:11:56] <ss> Umm... maybe we do.
[17:11:59] <ss> aravind would know.
[17:12:14] <ss> morgamic would too.
[17:12:16] dholbert [dholbert@moz-334F2010.mountainview.mozilla.com] has joined #developers
[17:12:25] <reed> firebot: bug 404842
[17:12:28] <firebot> Bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=404842 nor, --, ---, aravind@mozilla.com, NEW, increase throughput of socorro processor
[17:12:43] <cbarrett> They're working on it.
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[17:16:28] <Standard8> jpb, opps, really?
[17:16:57] <Standard8> jpb, guess I'd better back it out
[17:17:36] <gerv> Bedtime...
[17:18:15] <luser> reed: the only real solution right now is "throw more hardware at it
[17:18:30] dmoseMsgMe [dmose@moz-334F2010.mountainview.mozilla.com] has joined #developers
[17:18:38] <luser> also, getting the blocklist to work on those IDM crashes would help a lot
[17:18:39] <reed> luser: is that in progress?
[17:18:46] <luser> since they're a huge portion of our crash reports
[17:18:55] <luser> reed: i have no idea
[17:18:57] <reed> so, I've never _heard_ of IDM before
[17:19:02] <reed> before this started happening
[17:19:04] <Standard8> jpb, thanks for picking that up
[17:19:17] <reed> what exactly is it, and how is it so popular?
[17:19:28] <jpb> Standard8, just driving by
[17:20:12] <firebot> New build added to Camino: MacOSX Darwin 8.11.0 boxset Depend CmTrunk (status: Test Failed).
[17:20:22] <_FrnchFrgg_> roc: I just came out of a "only dead computers around" period of my life, and trying to get back to my previous work.
[17:20:31] gerv [gerv@moz-CE70B12A.plus.com] has left #developers
[17:20:32] <luser> reed: it's a download manager
[17:20:39] <luser> rob strong says it's actually pretty good as they go
[17:20:44] <reed> m
[17:20:46] <_FrnchFrgg_> Have there been improvements ?
[17:21:25] <_FrnchFrgg_> Or is the display list bound calculation still wrong ?
[17:21:32] asac [asac@moz-E2642875.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #developers
[17:21:49] <_FrnchFrgg_> (if you don't remember what it's all about, np)
[17:23:08] <_FrnchFrgg_> Oh, he's not there anymore.
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[17:26:57] luser [luser@moz-4F59F470.c3-0.drf-ubr1.atw-drf.pa.cable.rcn.com] is now known as ted
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[17:27:51] <ss> Whew.
[17:28:00] <ss> I was looking for ted earlier and forgot he was luser.
[17:28:02] jpb [jpb@moz-3AFB0040.webport.bt.net] has quit IRC: Ping timeout
[17:28:10] <ss> How quickly I change my mental associations...
[17:28:10] <ted> hah
[17:28:10] magneto [chatzilla@moz-1057D889.dial1.atlanta1.level3.net] has joined #developers
[17:28:20] <ted> yeah, i think i'm gonna keep it
[17:28:23] <_FrnchFrgg_> security/manager/ssl/src/nsIdentityChecking.cpp:553: error: 'CERT_REV_FAIL_SOFT_CRL' was not declared in this scope
[17:28:31] <_FrnchFrgg_> is it a known problem ?
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[17:32:15] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.1 talos trunk qm-pxp03' has changed state from Burning to Success.
[17:33:03] <Aleksej__> good night
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[17:34:41] <crowder> sicking: how back does nsDocument::Destroy removal actually regress perf, then?
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[17:36:04] <sicking> crowder: so it'll make pageload faster, but it makes cycle collection slower. Both pretty marginally, but the cycle-collection loss is bigger than the pageload win
[17:36:06] josh [josh@8F416405.BBC87276.3E8C195A.IP] has joined #developers
[17:36:25] <crowder> ah
[17:36:30] <sicking> crowder: though possibly we can get some of the loss back, but i'll do that in a later patch
[17:36:36] <crowder> *nod*
[17:36:50] <MisterSSL> All: Is Necko supported on any platform where sizeof(double) != 8 ?  I'm reviewing a patch whose correctness depends on the assumption that all doubles are 8 bytes wide.
[17:36:50] <sicking> basically what happens is that it moves some of the teardown away from pageload into cyclecollection
[17:37:16] <josh> is it OK to check in? is somebody on that windows bustage?
[17:37:18] <sicking> but cyclecollection happens in a more erratic order, so we're a bit more careful there, thus making it slower
[17:37:24] <crowder> MisterSSL: Sounds like a good candidate for a static assertion
[17:37:34] <crowder> sicking: right
[17:37:38] <sicking> Josh: i would not check in. I think people are looking at the bustage
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[17:37:47] <josh> sicking: thanks
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[17:38:41] <@bz> sicking: congrats!
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[17:39:01] <sicking> bz: thanks :)
[17:39:06] chrisblore [chris@moz-48BF722.cable.ubr05.newt.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #developers
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[17:39:14] <sicking> bz: now all i have to do is fix any leak regressions ;)
[17:39:48] <WeirdAl> hm, wish a few Mozillians had dropped in on today's Web 2.0 luncheon in downtown Mountain View
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[17:40:34] <crowder> WeirdAl: Wasn't aware of it; but the mozillians are doing an "all-hands like work week" this week
[17:40:50] <crowder> WeirdAl: So we had lunch amongst ourselves
[17:40:54] <WeirdAl> sounds familiar - we're under a similar crunch here
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[17:42:09] <@bz> sicking: smoc, right?  ;)
[17:42:27] <sicking> bz: smoc?
[17:42:29] <@bz> sicking: wanna do some reviews?
[17:42:32] <roc> is someone going to unbust winxp-03?
[17:42:41] <@bz> sicking: simple matter of coding
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[17:43:12] <sicking> heh
[17:43:18] <john> bz: so, hope you got some good sleep last night...
[17:43:26] <sicking> bz: i think roc has dibs right now
[17:43:27] <john> because I have more silly/interesting questions
[17:43:30] <aethus> does anyone know what is the chrome:// url for the menu bar?
[17:43:30] <sicking> bz: on my reviews
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[17:43:46] <sicking> bz: with <video>. Or chris has dips rather
[17:43:51] <@bz> john: sorta
[17:43:53] <john> aethus: I'd use the ChromeList extension to dig around
[17:43:59] <@bz> sicking: hmm
[17:44:02] bz looks
[17:44:18] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.2 fxdbug-win32-tb Depend Debug + Leak Test' has changed state from Success to Test Failed.
[17:44:29] <john> bz: so, I've got preliminary hWnd evilness cooking... wanted to ask you what combinations I need to test for different hWnd trees...
[17:44:43] <john> bz: if my goal is to, support only firefox, for example
[17:44:51] <@bz> sicking: so I have xbl stuff and <select> stuff
[17:44:58] <john> as in, how often does the general hWnd tree change...?
[17:45:02] <@bz> john: no idea
[17:45:08] <john> ok, np
[17:45:12] <john> is this a roc question...?
[17:45:19] <aethus> john: do all the menu items have specific ids? like "Bookmark all tabs..." etc
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[17:45:29] <sicking> bz: yeah, i'll try to look at it this weekend
[17:45:38] <john> aethus: yeah, if you google xul overlay
[17:45:41] <john> you should get some good tips
[17:45:41] <sicking> bz: maybe i can do that rather than come in to the office...
[17:45:45] <john> if you want to add to a menu item, etc
[17:46:05] <@bz> sicking: heh
[17:46:24] <@bz> sicking: I'm happy to move the requests elsewhere...
[17:46:44] <@bz> sicking: but you've already looked at some of these
[17:46:49] <sicking> bz: i should be able to do it if you think i'm the right person
[17:46:53] <sicking> right
[17:46:59] <@bz> pretty sure you are
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[17:49:17] bz just wants to get stuff in before we close the tree for a month again
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[17:52:22] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.2 qm-win2k3-01 dep unit test' has changed state from Burning to Success.
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[17:54:14] dbaron wonders if roc is going to get the redhat.com crasher in
[17:54:27] <roc> I suppose I could land it now
[17:54:43] <roc> it's a little tricky being saturday and all
[17:54:43] <@dbaron> enjoying your weekend? :-P
[17:54:58] <roc> :-)
[17:55:02] Joshua is acting SPL... again
[17:55:07] <roc> should I wait for the orange on win32-tb to clear?
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[17:56:00] <roc> dbaron: if you could mark it as a blocker, that would help :-)
[17:56:14] <Joshua> are all of the windows problems fixed now?
[17:56:44] <@dbaron> done
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[17:57:03] <roc> eh, win32-tb must be random
[17:57:09] <roc> I'll land
[17:57:11] <reed> jst: ping
[17:57:18] <reed> roc: uh, did linux perf get fixed?
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[17:57:32] <jst> reed: ?
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[17:57:38] <roc> I dunno did it?
[17:57:48] <reed> jst: did you mean to reassign it to you again? :)
[17:57:53] <reed> but sure, I'll get it later
[17:58:02] <jst> reed: I *really* wanted that bug :)
[17:58:05] <roc> we talking bm-xserve08?
[17:58:05] <reed> lol
[17:58:08] <jst> reed: did I take it from you, or?
[17:58:08] <reed> roc: linux perf
[17:58:14] <reed> jst: no
[17:58:15] <jst> ok
[17:58:19] <reed> jst: I just reassigned it to the sun guy
[17:58:22] <reed> since he wrote the patch
[17:58:26] <reed> (earlier)
[17:58:29] <reed> then you took it back
[17:58:33] <reed> just wondered about that :)
[17:58:39] <jst> reed: ah, I did mean to take the bug, but either way works, I don't really care
[17:58:41] <reed> k
[17:58:44] <jst> nor does he
[17:58:46] <reed> roc: http://build-graphs.mozilla.org/graph/query.cgi?testname=startup&units=ms&tbox=bl-bldlnx03_fx-linux-tbox-HEAD&autoscale=1&days=7&avg=1&showpoint=2007:11:30:15:42:29,904
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[17:59:41] <roc> hmm
[17:59:54] <roc> could it be bug 398579?
[18:00:02] <db48x> roc: what type of hash is that?
[18:00:08] <roc> md5
[18:00:16] <roc> because if it's bug 404820, I'll eat my socks
[18:00:28] <reed> roc's done it before
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[18:00:34] <Waldo> mm, fiber
[18:00:34] <roc> reed: you want to try backing out 398579?
[18:00:35] <reed> tsk tsk :)
[18:00:36] <RyanVM> Enn: ping
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[18:00:40] <reed> roc; sure
[18:00:40] <db48x> roc: http://www.win.tue.nl/hashclash/Nostradamus/
[18:00:48] <db48x> just to name one recent example
[18:00:58] <reed> this is the second(?) time roc's done that
[18:01:23] <reed> roc: are you at least going to specify in your will to post those? :P
[18:01:23] kiko-afk [kiko@moz-21AE8E0E.dsl.telesp.net.br] is now known as kiko-zzz
[18:01:54] <roc> my message is plain text
[18:01:56] <roc> ASCII only
[18:02:01] <roc> nowhere to hide binary stuff
[18:02:03] <roc> I promise :-)
[18:02:23] <db48x> heh
[18:02:59] <RyanVM> roc: has your last post come true yet?
[18:03:18] <roc> it's not a prediction
[18:03:29] <roc> oops, I shouldn't really have revealed that
[18:03:30] <roc> gotta run
[18:03:36] <reed> lol
[18:03:37] <roc> I'll check in my redhat,.com fix later 
[18:03:38] roc [roc@moz-C35BE7F8.dsl.telstraclear.net] has quit IRC: Quit: roc
[18:03:51] <reed> WeirdAl: backing you out now
[18:03:58] koifans [chatzilla@moz-BA946301.yvr.sxip.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout
[18:04:01] <WeirdAl> huh?
[18:04:33] <reed> http://build-graphs.mozilla.org/graph/query.cgi?testname=startup&units=ms&tbox=bl-bldlnx03_fx-linux-tbox-HEAD&autoscale=1&days=7&avg=1&showpoint=2007:11:30:15:42:29,904
[18:04:36] <reed> [05:59:58PM] <roc> could it be bug 398579?
[18:04:39] <reed> [06:00:38PM] <roc> reed: you want to try backing out 398579?
[18:05:17] <WeirdAl> you think I hurt perf with that? :(
[18:05:34] <reed> hmm
[18:05:36] <reed> well
[18:05:42] <reed> help me figure out what did it then :)
[18:05:55] WeirdAl sighs - I have no idea
[18:06:01] <db48x> WeirdAl: funny, that's pretty much what roc said about his own patch
[18:06:20] <WeirdAl> reed: go ahead and try it; it still has approval+ until Monday anyway
[18:06:23] <Mossop> If anything I'd expect WeirdAl's to improve perf
[18:07:02] <WeirdAl> come Monday, all approval bets are off.
[18:07:28] <WeirdAl> -- why isn't the tree formally closed, though?
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[18:08:13] <db48x> yea, all WeirdAl's patch does is remove a string comparison
[18:08:19] <Mossop> The tree is orange, noone can check in anyway
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[18:08:53] <db48x> unless there was already some code that tried to use import that is suceeding now where it wasn't before
[18:09:20] <db48x> seems doubtful though
[18:09:51] <db48x> it would be pretty funny to see roc eat is socks
[18:10:38] <WeirdAl> reed: I'm sorry I can't actively help right now; I just hit a crash in my own code (debug code at that, a postcondition)
[18:10:50] <reed> hmm
[18:10:52] <Waldo> db48x, roc: "darn it"?
[18:10:52] <reed> k
[18:11:02] Waldo ducks
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[18:11:12] <db48x> heh
[18:11:56] Waldo takes this thread of conversation to its end
[18:12:16] <Waldo> I'm a frayed this joke's run out of places to go
[18:12:26] <db48x> oh dear
[18:12:34] <reed> what about xslt stuff?
[18:12:37] <reed> like Bug 405069 ?
[18:12:44] <Waldo> !summon dolske
[18:12:48] <db48x> reed: xslt is always a good scapegoat
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[18:14:03] <dholbert> Waldo: You need the dolske pokemon ball
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[18:14:12] <reed> db48x: would it cause a perf regression like that?
[18:14:15] <cbarrett> man, being a pokemon must suck.
[18:14:25] <dholbert> Did you see the Robot Chicken about that?
[18:14:27] <Waldo> haha
[18:14:28] <dholbert> It was pretty awesome
[18:14:28] <cbarrett> live in a tiny, dark ball, only let out to fight other pokemn.
[18:14:31] <cbarrett> dholbert: yeah
[18:14:42] <cbarrett> They showed some of the Star Wars robot chicken last night.
[18:14:43] <cbarrett> I was dying.
[18:14:45] <dholbert> nice
[18:14:45] <cbarrett> So funny.
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[18:15:11] <db48x> reed: there isn't any xslt used during startup
[18:15:18] <reed> k
[18:15:23] <db48x> we don't have to tell anyone that though
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[18:16:25] <ptlis> Does anyone know of a bug where firefox doesn't use the charset specified in intl.accept_charsets and instead does it's own thing? Simple testcase, compare the value for intl.accept_charsets in your about:config then view them here: http://ptlis.net/temp/testcase , if they match try removing one of the character sets from the entry; the accept-charset field sent by firefox doesn't seem to reflect this change
[18:16:29] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.2 qm-win2k3-01 dep unit test' has changed state from Success to Burning.
[18:17:07] <aethus> after bug 373623 landed shouldn't menuitem[label="Print..."] {display:none !important} be replaced by menuitem[label="Print&hellip;"] {display:none !important}
[18:17:11] <reed> I really hate our unit test machines
[18:17:17] <ptlis> And infact, ignores the default value alltogether apparently
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[18:18:06] <Noah> aethus: um, misspelling in Print&hellip? or not?
[18:18:34] <aethus> Noah: I don't think so
[18:19:37] <db48x> or should it be menuitem[label="Print…"]? does it match before or after entity substitution?
[18:19:38] Noah says well hellip sounds weird to me, but it must be a geek term that i dont know
[18:19:43] <@bz> menuitem[label="Print&hellip;"] ?
[18:19:45] <@bz> huh?
[18:19:48] <db48x> Noah: horizontal ellipsis
[18:19:54] <db48x> I'd say after
[18:20:01] <Mossop> CSS wont convert the entity so it would be what db48x says
[18:20:18] <@bz> yes, but that's not useful css
[18:20:22] <@bz> like mossop says
[18:20:23] <db48x> also, it seems like there would be a much better way to do that selector
[18:20:39] <db48x> certianly that menuitem has an id
[18:20:47] <Mossop> Yeah it'd be better to file a bug to give the menuitem an id
[18:20:53] <aethus> if you use userchrome.css to hide some menu items &hellip; doesn't seem to do the job
[18:20:57] <db48x> basing it on the label is silly, because not every user uses the english langpack
[18:21:07] <aethus> you actually have to copy the character from somewhere
[18:21:16] <db48x> aethus: try it with the actual ellipsis
[18:22:06] <db48x> also, this 'copy it from somewhere' business annoys me :)
[18:22:07] <aethus> db48x, ... doesn't work but the elipsis character works
[18:22:24] <db48x> aethus: yea, that's what I meant
[18:22:30] <Mossop> You should be able to type it assuming you know the hex code ;)
[18:22:45] <Waldo> ptlis: are you changing it and restarting, or changing and not restarting?
[18:22:45] <db48x> no, most computers will only do that for ascii
[18:22:57] <Joshua> CSS allows \uxxxx IIRC
[18:23:04] <aethus> db48x, yes it would be a problem for a lot of people who use it for the same purpose
[18:23:11] <ptlis> Not restarting, however that same method works when changing the value for (eg) the accept header
[18:23:18] <@bz> It allows \XXXXXX
[18:23:21] <aethus> josh, lemme check
[18:23:23] <@bz> no u
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[18:24:28] <ptlis> Waldo, however, restarting firefox doesn't appear to make a difference
[18:24:46] <Joshua> don't forget to include a whitespace character afterwords
[18:24:57] <Joshua> wait, not necessary
[18:25:07] <aethus> bz: yes \2026 works
[18:25:20] <Joshua> or \002026 as well ;-)
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[18:26:33] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.2 fxdbug-win32-tb Depend Debug + Leak Test' has changed state from Test Failed to Success.
[18:28:16] db48x sleeps
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[18:34:59] <Ancestor> sspitzer: ping
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[18:37:51] <@bz> Joshua: a character outside the [0-9a-f] range is only needed if using less than 6 digits
[18:37:59] <@bz> Joshua: and if it's whitespace it'll get eaten, yes
[18:38:11] <Waldo> ptlis: a bit preoccupied right now, sorry; dunno whether it's a bug or not, to be honest
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[18:42:38] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.1 talos trunk qm-pxp01' has changed state from Burning to Success.
[18:42:38] <firebot> Camino: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.10.0 maya Depend CmTrunk' has changed state from Test Failed to Success.
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[18:47:28] <reed> another green
[18:47:29] <reed> just one to go
[18:47:36] <reed> ok
[18:47:37] <reed> so
[18:47:39] dietrich [dietrich@moz-9549A5E3.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #developers
[18:47:41] <reed> what should I back out?
[18:47:45] <reed> bz: ping
[18:48:57] <reed> anybody have ideas about what would have caused the Linux perf regression?
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[18:51:53] <crowder> reed: Which metric?  Tp?
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[18:52:50] <crowder> awww, look how pretty and green the tree was this morning
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[18:53:09] <reed> crowder: Ts on linux
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[18:56:07] <dholbert> bz: ping?
[18:57:36] <cbarrett> Can you compile Firefox 64 bit?
[18:57:45] <cbarrett> (I'm assuming "no, hahaha")
[18:58:50] rob_strong [rob_strong@moz-334F2010.mountainview.mozilla.com] has joined #developers
[18:58:50] <dmose> cbarrett: sure
[18:58:52] <walters> cbarrett: on what platform?  it works on linux
[18:59:01] <cbarrett> Assuming the guy asking is on Windows.
[18:59:08] <cbarrett> (just a guess)
[18:59:16] <dmose> oh, dunno about that
[18:59:31] <RyanVM> there are unofficial x64 builds out there for windows
[18:59:37] <cbarrett> Interesting.
[18:59:50] <reed> http://www.mozilla-x86-64.com/
[19:00:01] <RyanVM> http://www.vector64.com/WindowsBuilds.html
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[19:00:48] <Joshua> would anyone be interested in a replacement for mxr's identifier search that a) operates on a local tree and b) is more accurate>
[19:01:18] <cbarrett> At some point we're going to want to move Mac over there, because while there will probably still be 32-bit libraries for quite a while
[19:02:01] <cbarrett> if we're the only thing 32 bit then you're going to have to wait while the 32bit versions all of cocoa and those other libraries we use are loaded up.
[19:02:03] <RyanVM> would be nice if win64 became an officially supported platform
[19:02:08] <cbarrett> Since nobody else would be using them.
[19:02:14] <walters> cbarrett: the plugin issue is a huge mess though
[19:02:19] <cbarrett> walters: *nod*
[19:02:30] <dmose> Joshua: i predict yes
[19:02:45] <Joshua> I have it down to one shell command
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[19:03:02] walters [walters@moz-97201431.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit IRC: Quit: the cake is a lie
[19:03:26] <cbarrett> hah
[19:03:35] <cbarrett> Awesome quit message.
[19:03:46] <RyanVM> Crash! Bang! Boom!
[19:03:48] <RyanVM> ?
[19:03:50] <RyanVM> :P
[19:03:55] <reed> the cake is a lie
[19:04:07] Joshua still needs to play Portal
[19:04:26] <Joshua> unfortunately, the person who owns the copy has been out sick all week... :'(
[19:04:42] <reed> ok
[19:05:21] <reed> rob_strong: so
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[19:05:31] <reed> rob_strong: tree is really closed
[19:05:36] <reed> there's a perf regression
[19:05:38] <shebs> i doubt very many mac things will ever be 64-bit
[19:05:44] reed goes to actually close it
[19:05:55] <shebs> performance not so great vs 32-bit
[19:05:55] <reed> I hate perf regressions
[19:06:01] <reed> they are a pain to figure out
[19:06:07] <cbarrett> shebs: not in the immediate future.
[19:06:13] <cbarrett> but eventually.
[19:06:57] <cbarrett> reed: The tree isn't closed.
[19:07:03] <cbarrett> reed: It doesn't say so on the page.
[19:07:12] <reed> cbarrett: orange == CLOSED
[19:07:19] <reed> actually, it's red now
[19:07:34] <reed> ok
[19:07:35] <reed> closing it now
[19:07:38] <cbarrett> Right, that's not closed.
[19:07:41] dholbert [dholbert@moz-334F2010.mountainview.mozilla.com] has quit IRC: Quit: Ex-Chat
[19:07:41] <cbarrett> That just means don't check in.
[19:07:52] <cbarrett> You don't need to close the tree for an orange or a red.
[19:08:00] <cbarrett> People shouldn't check in on those in the first place.
[19:08:13] <cbarrett> Close the tree if it's green but people shouldn't check in.
[19:08:14] <RyanVM> what's the difference between "closed" and "don't check in" if you don't mind me asking?
[19:08:26] <cbarrett> RyanVM: Never check in on red/orange.
[19:08:36] <cbarrett> (unless you're fixing bustage)
[19:08:48] <firebot> SeaMonkey has changed state from open to closed.
[19:08:51] <firebot> Firefox has changed state from open to closed.
[19:08:52] Joshua waits for the tree to reopen
[19:08:52] <firebot> Thunderbird has changed state from open to closed.
[19:08:53] <rob_strong> reed: backed it out
[19:08:53] <crowder> Anyone else had a problem with terminal.app swallowing l/ pairs?
[19:08:53] <firebot> Camino has changed state from open to closed.
[19:09:06] <cbarrett> Closed is for when the tree would be otherwise open (i.e. green) but you want folks to stay out.
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[19:10:41] <crowder> c/d/e/f/g/h/i/j/k/l/m/n/o/p/
[19:10:47] <ss> Or if people are checking in but shouldn't be.
[19:10:49] <shebs> cbarrett: ok, if "eventually" means "after I'm dead" :)
[19:10:50] <crowder> urgh
[19:10:55] <ss> As in, it's red/orange and they're checking in.
[19:10:56] <cbarrett> shebs: hah.
[19:10:58] <RyanVM> mmm...Winter Lager, Modern Marvels, and #developers. What a Friday :)
[19:11:47] <rob_strong> then there are the tbox's that don't start another cycle until there is a checkin and they failed to kill a process or some other such sporadic error
[19:11:51] <WeirdAl> reed: I take it you weren't able to isolate the time regression
[19:11:52] <shebs> plus all the apple kernel guys will have to be dead too :)
[19:11:55] <mcsmurf> ss: cause the tree is opening and closing all the time ;)
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[19:12:06] <WeirdAl> rob_strong: I think lunch will have to wait until after 1.9 ;)
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[19:13:02] <WeirdAl> reed: I don't see a backout from you on my patch, did that ever happen?
[19:13:07] <reed> doing it now
[19:13:09] <reed> but
[19:13:28] <reed> so
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[19:13:39] <reed> does anybody see anything else that could possibly have caused it?
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[19:14:41] <WeirdAl> this is startup-only time?
[19:15:22] WeirdAl has no problem keeping the tree closed while trying to find out where perf took a hit
[19:16:01] <reed> Txul is up, too
[19:16:07] <reed> Ts and Txul
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[19:18:41] <Joshua> the 10ms Ts is reasonable perf lag, but Txul seems to be only up by 1ms...
[19:20:07] <reed> yeah
[19:20:12] <reed> Ts is what I care about
[19:21:04] <Mossop> ted: ping
[19:21:41] doublec [doublec@moz-39970434.ue.woosh.co.nz] has joined #developers
[19:22:27] <roc> reed: were you going to do that backou?
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[19:22:38] <reed> roc: in progress
[19:22:47] <roc> ok
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[19:24:42] <doublec> roc: my position paper was one of the one's selected to give a presentation at the w3c workshop
[19:24:46] <doublec> http://www.w3.org/2007/08/video/agenda.html
[19:24:57] <reed> roc: backed out
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[19:28:27] <WeirdAl> okay, since this is the first time I can recall getting backed out for perf, what's standard practice?  Back out a patch, let tboxes cycle, and if it's not resolved, back the next one out?
[19:29:01] <reed> WeirdAl: http://www.mozilla.org/hacking/regression-policy.html
[19:29:12] <Mossop> Depends who you ask, some suggest just backing everything in range out then letting people check in more carefully
[19:29:54] <WeirdAl> going to be a long night....
[19:31:28] <reed> I'm more of the school of "back out stuff that looks obvious first before backing out everything"
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[19:33:19] <doublec> Interesting the Nokia proposal calls Ogg a proprietary technology and prefers the W3C not actively endorse it
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[19:34:59] <zzxc> doublec: What does it suggest?  mpeg?
[19:35:11] <doublec> zzxc: H264 and AAC
[19:35:52] <zzxc> Which, of course, could not work in a free browser in the US.
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[19:36:26] <zzxc> doublec: By the way, do you know if Apple and Opera are planning on shipping <video> in their next releases?
[19:36:43] <doublec> In the group of presentations I'm in, Nokia and Adobe  are suggesting H264. Apple are not giving any recommendation. Opera and Mozilla are suggesting Theora.
[19:36:58] <firebot> Firefox: 'WINNT 5.2 qm-win2k3-01 dep unit test' has changed state from Burning to Success.
[19:37:05] <doublec> zzxc: I don't know. <video> is in the webkit nightly builds. Opera has an experimental build available.
[19:38:13] <zzxc> doublec: Has there been further talk of the best way to support captioning?
[19:39:00] <doublec> zzxc: Nothing that I've seen. Ogg are working on standardising caption support in CMML
[19:39:19] <doublec> I think HTML5 is going the way of it being a codec issue
[19:39:20] <cbarrett> 264 would be nice but isn't it patent encumbered?
[19:39:32] <doublec> cbarrett: yes
[19:39:55] <cbarrett> A non-starter then, most likely.
[19:39:56] <zzxc> h264 (and clones) are the best video technology available, but there is a per-unit patent licensing fee.
[19:39:59] <reed> wow
[19:40:08] <reed> the tree is just _now_ green
[19:40:09] <reed> lol
[19:40:18] <reed> from yesterday's cairo landing
[19:40:27] <cbarrett> uh
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[19:40:39] <cbarrett> The cairo landing turned those unit test boxen randomly orange last night?
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[19:40:49] <cbarrett> When dietrich was sherriffing until like midnight?
[19:40:53] <reed> yes
[19:41:01] <reed> and it regressed perf
[19:41:20] <cbarrett> new Cairo?
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[19:43:53] <roc> doublec: cool
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[19:45:19] <doublec> Nokia suggest other alternatives. For example an older codec with expired or nearly expired patents (eg H261)
[19:45:40] <roc> interesting
[19:45:44] <roc> what's their problem with Ogg?
[19:46:13] <zzxc> doublec: Would an implementation of theora be capable of running on low-power mobile devices?
[19:47:11] <doublec> zzxc: probably not as well as the H264 solutions which have hardware support
[19:47:50] <zzxc> doublec: And I doubt there are any companies lining up to make theora chipsets, since it is still too new and it may be subject to unknown patents.
[19:48:04] <doublec> roc, they list a bunch of things they think a W3C endorsed codec should have
[19:48:22] <cbarrett> Plus, in terms of codec quality, it's about as good as FLV
[19:48:26] <doublec> like compatibiity with DRM. They see without that they'd be no 'big content producer' support
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[19:48:47] <cbarrett> doublec: Good luck.
[19:48:51] <doublec> 'availability of content production tools from the very start of adoption'
[19:49:49] <doublec> zzxc: yes, that is true. There are working examples of theora on hardware that people are working on though. 
[19:50:07] <doublec> but a long way from any real world usage as far as i know
[19:50:08] <zzxc> How could there be an open standard for web DRM?  All anyone would have to do is comment out a few lines of code.
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[19:50:45] <cbarrett> zzxc: presumably the codec would be provided by the OS m
[19:50:47] <cbarrett> -m
[19:50:53] <reed> 10 min. before we should know if that patch caused it
[19:51:04] <reed> roc: does xslt run in Ts codepath?
[19:51:05] <cbarrett> Similar to how it works on OS X right now.
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[19:51:46] <roc> reed: I'm guessing not
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[19:51:52] <roc> well, I'd be surprised if it did
[19:52:02] <reed> roc: while we're waiting on this patch
[19:52:07] <reed> is there some other patch you see?
[19:52:08] <zzxc> If the OS gave a web browser frames to render, a user could save them and defeat the DRM.
[19:52:10] <reed> what about your other patches?
[19:53:16] <reed> roc: see twanno's patch?
[19:53:24] <Joshua> zzxc: welcome to the analog hole
[19:53:48] <Joshua> I can defeat any and all audio DRM by simply piping the headphone line to my microphone input and recording that
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[19:55:03] <Joshua> the only truly successful DRM wouldn't let you actually view/listen to the content...
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[19:55:35] <roc> you can't really have a codec that both allows open source clients and supports real DRM
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[19:56:28] <roc> maybe there need to be at least two "standard" codecs, one which is open source friendly and another which does DRM
[19:56:44] <doublec> that's a reasonable approach
[19:56:44] <Joshua> where's the split-HTML file for HTML 5 draft located?
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[19:56:54] <@dbaron> Joshua, add multipage/ to the end of the URL?
[19:57:01] <@dbaron> or maybe multi-page ?
[19:57:04] <roc> but really, this whole "big content producers" argument is leaky
[19:57:14] <roc> big content producers haven't stopped releasing movies on easily-ripped DVDs
[19:57:17] <Joshua> dbaron: both give me 404s
[19:57:39] <@dbaron> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/
[19:59:08] <roc> doublec: you might want to post our position paper to the MoCo Intranet, and your blog if we're allowed to do that
[19:59:17] <Joshua> dbaron: thanks!
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[19:59:30] <roc> get some discussion of the arguments going so you're all prepared :-)
[19:59:30] <doublec> roc: good idea
[19:59:43] <doublec> they're all public so it should be fine
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[20:00:48] <Joshua> I sort of like HTML 5's idea of specifying the layout through the DOM
[20:01:22] <roc> sounds like there could be a gunfight brewing
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[20:01:44] <roc> just wear your big shiny "free software for the open Web" sheriff's badge and go in with all guns blazin
[20:01:57] <doublec> hehe
[20:02:38] <reed> roc: that wasn't it
[20:02:43] <reed> roc: pick the next patch to back out
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[20:03:30] <reed> honestly, we might get this fixed faster by backing out half
[20:03:36] <reed> :/
[20:03:47] <Waldo> if you don't actually know, back everything out and save everyone's time
[20:04:08] <Waldo> we should be more aggressive about mass backouts when something regresses for no obvious reason
[20:04:09] <Mossop> indeed
[20:04:10] <roc> beats me
[20:04:21] <reed> Waldo: no, binary search
[20:04:24] <reed> back out _half_
[20:04:25] <reed> :)
[20:04:56] <zzxc> By the way, is there any timeframe planned for delivering video?  A 3.x release, an extension?  Firefox 4?
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[20:06:10] <roc> reed: yeah, back out half I guess
[20:06:17] <roc> nothing looks more likely than anything else
[20:06:29] <reed> k
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[20:06:49] <roc> thanks
[20:06:57] <cbarrett> There's a pretty clear perf regression policy.
[20:07:01] <cbarrett> Back everything out.
[20:07:14] <cbarrett> http://www.mozilla.org/hacking/regression-policy.html
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[20:07:33] <cbarrett> # If there is no good idea as to what caused the problem, then
[20:07:33] <cbarrett> * the tree remains closed * everyone is backed out
[20:07:33] <cbarrett> * those who were backed out are allowed to check-in only through a metering process. The sheriff decides the check-in order.
[20:07:40] <Waldo> reed: the sheriff should not be responsible for the transgressions of the committers
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[20:07:49] <Waldo> nor should the rest of the people waiting to commit
[20:07:56] <Waldo> which is what a binary-search requires
[20:08:10] <Waldo> rather, forced to pay for the latter
[20:08:16] <reed> considering the committers are me, vlad, and roc
[20:08:32] <reed> no thanks
[20:08:37] <cbarrett> http://www.mozilla.org/hacking/regression-policy.html
[20:08:38] <reed> half it is
[20:09:28] <Joshua> hmm, would IE's current implementation of <OBJECT> break the HTML 5 spec for it?
[20:09:39] <roc> I'm OK with backing everything out
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[20:09:48] <Wes-> It's cbarrett's fault. He had a patch to check in today, you know. ;)
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[20:09:57] <cbarrett> Wes-: That's already landed.
[20:10:03] <Wes-> Oh, okay. :)
[20:10:25] <Wes-> Hey, Joshua, seen Doug C's latest thoughts on fixing HTML?
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[20:10:48] <miksago> Wes- ?
[20:10:52] <doublec> yea, I read that
[20:11:02] <miksago> link?
[20:11:11] <Joshua> Wes-: no, link?
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[20:11:15] <@Hixie> Joshua: easiest way to get to the multipage version is http://whatwg.org/html5
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[20:11:53] <Joshua> Hixie: thanks, dbaron already pointed me to it
[20:11:59] <Wes-> http://www.crockford.com/html/
[20:11:59] <doublec> Joshua: http://www.crockford.com/html/
[20:12:05] <doublec> :)
[20:12:21] <Wes-> :)
[20:12:44] <roc> can't we just file him under "crackpot" and move on?
[20:12:54] <cbarrett> roc: I'd prefer "crockpot"
[20:13:00] <cbarrett> but I'm a sucker for puns.
[20:13:00] <doublec> haha
[20:13:01] <cbarrett> ;)
[20:13:01] <Wes-> roc - he's not 100% crack pot
[20:13:11] <Wes-> LOL
[20:13:11] <miksago> cbarrett: that's one bad pun.
[20:13:13] <cbarrett> Frames
[20:13:14] <cbarrett> No more framesets, frames, or iframes. The security properties of these were problematic. Instead we'll have modules.
[20:13:18] <cbarrett> 100% Crazy.
[20:13:22] <Wes-> I just haven't figured out percent, yet.
[20:13:24] <miksago> he could be 100% crockpot?
[20:13:25] <cbarrett> Have fun breaking the web.
[20:13:31] <reed> roc: backing out everything is just going to make us wait longer
[20:13:35] <reed> because we'll start to reland
[20:13:38] <reed> and have to wait
[20:13:48] <Joshua> ... a tad simplistic
[20:14:05] <cbarrett> reed: You're not sherrif, and the pref regression policy says back everyone out.
[20:14:05] <Wes-> cbarrett -- I thought he was nuts saying "let's get rid of frames", but then again, I was trying to come up with an example that couldn't be re-implemented without them...
[20:14:18] <reed> cbarrett: sheriff is #developers, which includes me
[20:14:25] <cbarrett> And me.
[20:14:27] <Wes-> ...I personally thought the world was about to come to an end when MoFo dropped div.src
[20:14:33] <roc> I'm Spartacus!
[20:14:59] <Wes-> Agadore Spartacus?
[20:15:01] <Joshua> well, the main argument people give (that I've heard) for dropping frames is that AJAX can do it
[20:15:20] <Joshua> and the main argument against AJAX (again, that I've heard) is that most of it can be done using frames
[20:15:40] <cbarrett> roc: That's essentially how "Sheriff is #developers" works.
[20:15:42] <roc> you're nuts too
[20:15:59] <cbarrett> Me or Joshua
[20:16:12] <roc> Joshua's nuts, not you.
[20:16:12] <spl> not everything can be done with ajax that can be done with frames, you can't start a download in an iframe and set a content-type header with ajax for example
[20:16:22] <roc> cbarrett: if you want to back everything out, that's fine with me
[20:16:31] <Joshua> spl: I know
[20:16:40] <cbarrett> roc: Unfortunately, I'm leaving in 15 minutes :(
[20:16:41] <Wes-> Yeah. Everything I used frames for in the past can be done better now, with AJAX, IMHO.  And I was using frames 7 years ago to execute dynamically-generated javascript  to get data back to the DHTML thin client 
[20:16:52] <Joshua> but much of what is done with AJAX can be done with frames
[20:16:59] <Joshua> I'm not arguing one way or the other here
[20:17:00] <Wes-> spl -- that's actually a good point
[20:17:04] <Joshua> just repeating what I've heard
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[20:17:32] <Wes-> It's interesting, I used to love frames, then I hated them because everything broke (cross-site scripting attacks changed the rules). Now I don't know what the hell to think any more!
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[20:18:11] <Joshua> besides, all security problems with frames aren't going to go away with AJAX
[20:18:28] <Wes-> I'm surprised he didn't mention tables. I still love tables, but there's an awful lot of CSS weenies that hate 'em.
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[20:18:35] <cbarrett> "No more document.write. No more in-page event handlers. No more javascript: urls."
[20:18:42] <roc> ok to short-circuit this discussion I backed out my only remaining patch in the window
[20:18:47] <cbarrett> Man he's been drinking crazy juice.
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[20:19:02] <roc> I think he just has different goals
[20:19:06] <roc> Web compatibility isn't one of them
[20:19:08] <Wes-> Either that or he's stuck in 1999
[20:19:17] <Joshua> yes, I think his scripting dilemmas are way over the top
[20:19:30] <Wes-> Do you remember how document.write was necessary for writing into a netscape div?
[20:19:54] <roc> ok, so I'm off the hook I think
[20:19:57] <cbarrett> roc: If you're going to break web compatability then why retain any of the HTML stuff.
[20:19:59] <Wes-> And cross-frame scripts could fish data from other sites?
[20:20:05] <Joshua> probably his best suggestion, IMO, is the <html version="5"> one
[20:20:08] <WeirdAl> reed: so I'm off the hook?
[20:20:09] <roc> cbarrett: right
[20:20:11] <roc> gotta go again
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[20:20:17] cbarrett is not overly fond of HTML and CSS in the first place.
[20:20:18] <Wes-> I like that one, too.  
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[20:20:40] <cbarrett> anyway, taking a cue from roc and leaving.
[20:20:43] <cbarrett> Cya guys later.
[20:20:43] Wes- wants something with low-barrier to entry which isn't too messy
[20:20:53] <Joshua> his encoding is also reasonably sensible
[20:20:58] <Joshua> but probably near impossible
[20:21:08] <cbarrett> Unicode is not beloved everywhere.
[20:21:28] <cbarrett> Unihan still riles people up.
[20:21:32] <reed> what in the world
[20:21:35] <reed> stupid cvs
[20:21:42] <reed> giving me an up-to-date check error
[20:21:47] <reed> when it's clearly up-to-date
[20:22:00] <Joshua> for example, it's impractical as long as Windows is based off of the Cp** data
[20:22:16] <Joshua> I think most other OSes use UTF-8 as the default
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[20:23:46] <reed> backed out two more while I attempt to figure out why cvs won't let me back out one of roc's patches
[20:23:57] <Joshua> anyways, his comments on scripting, frames, and CSS are simply crazy
[20:24:03] <cbarrett> roc backed it out already, reed?
[20:24:09] <reed> he didn't
[20:24:30] <reed> oh
[20:24:31] <reed> he did
[20:24:36] <reed> ok
[20:24:41] <reed> so, let's see how this goes
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[20:36:55] <philor> reed: where in svnmo is the copy of venus we're currently running?
[20:37:18] <reed> projects/planet/branches/venus
[20:37:21] <reed> or something
[20:37:28] <philor> k, close enough, thanks
[20:37:35] <reed> it's a bit old, as the last time I upgraded it, it died
[20:37:36] <reed> :(
[20:38:15] <reed> probably because the machine it runs on is RHEL4
[20:38:17] <reed> with an old python
[20:38:23] <philor> ah, sux2be brendan, then
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[20:40:25] <reed> probably could just start up a vm
[20:40:26] <reed> to do it
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[20:41:21] <philor> even trunk feedparser doesn't tolerate style elements, only style attributes
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[20:47:06] <philor> but then, the markup would be prettier with style attributes than it is now, something I don't say too often
[20:47:38] <aethus> does anyone else think that the new address bar should reduse the font size of the page name a bit?
[20:47:51] <aethus> reduce*
[20:49:06] <RyanVM> man, 405899 is collecting a lot of dupes. I hope Enn notices my comment that his patch works
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[20:54:41] <reed> RyanVM: request review on the patch
[20:54:43] <reed> from somebody
[20:54:51] <reed> drive patches!
[20:55:07] <reed> be active, not passive
[20:55:23] <RyanVM> well, it's not like Enn isn't fully capable of doing that himself
[20:55:42] <RyanVM> it's one thing if it's glennrp, but I don't like stepping on the toes of regular coders
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[21:11:16] <reed> hmm[h
[21:11:17] <reed> hmmph
[21:11:21] <reed> only two more things to back out
[21:11:22] <reed> :/
[21:11:32] <firebot> Camino: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.11.0 boxset Depend CmTrunk' has changed state from Test Failed to Success.
[21:12:06] <reed> but one doesn't count
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[21:12:42] <reed> so
[21:12:45] <reed> I'll back out this last patch
[21:12:54] <reed> after that, I dunno what else
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[21:28:19] WeirdAl hands reed a sledgehammer for "what else"
[21:29:10] <Joshua> call it a freak of nature and ignore it?
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[21:40:05] <Mossop> Joshua: That's a nasty thing to say about reed
[21:42:31] <reed> lol
[21:42:43] <reed> if this doesn't help perf
[21:42:48] <reed> there's nothing else
[21:42:51] <reed> :(
[21:42:53] <Joshua> the antecedent of it here is "the perf regression"
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[21:50:56] <sayrer> hmm, this new cairo kinda rots on mac
[21:55:26] <dwitte> reed: lol, Ts still sucks
[21:55:36] <dwitte> you broke mozilla!
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[21:56:33] <reed> ooo, Ts went down
[21:56:45] <reed> let's see
[21:57:15] <dwitte> not anywhere near its original value
[21:57:31] <reed> true
[21:57:36] <reed> but it hasn't been to 902
[21:57:37] <reed> in a while
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[21:57:54] <reed> let's see what the next numbers look like
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[22:09:35] <reed> hah
[22:09:39] <reed> it was sdwilsh's patch
[22:09:51] <reed> numbers are slowly going down... they take a while on that machine to go down
[22:11:13] <philor> what was it that gave us the huge win Monday?
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[22:13:51] <reed> multiple patches
[22:15:35] <reed> myk's patch
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[22:24:36] <Joshua> ...
[22:24:44] <Joshua> ah well, can't stay up any longer
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[22:37:03] <@bz> reed: studying all done?
[22:37:07] <reed> bz: not at all
[22:37:08] <reed> :p
[22:37:12] <reed> but it's friday night
[22:37:13] <@bz> reed: heh
[22:37:16] <@bz> reed: ok, fair enough
[22:37:21] <@bz> reed: finals this coming week?
[22:37:25] <reed> start Wednesday
[22:37:30] <reed> last day of class is Monday
[22:37:36] <@bz> ouch
[22:37:44] <@bz> that's pretty painful
[22:37:46] <reed> yeah
[22:37:57] <@bz> Over here the last "real" day of class was Wed
[22:38:01] <@bz> and finals start Mon
[22:38:08] <reed> ah, I wish we had that long to prepare
[22:38:12] <@bz> "real" == "can introduce new material"
[22:38:23] <reed> ah
[22:38:38] <@bz> thurs/fri tend to be review session type things
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[22:38:59] <reed> bz: so, any idea what is causing this perf regression on Linux? I've backed out everything I could think of, and the only thing left is some build stuff that's mac only and me removing a directory that's not part of the build
[22:39:10] <reed> oh, and a xulrunner change that's xulrunner-only
[22:39:21] <reed> :/
[22:39:31] <john_> roc: can you point me in the direction of the codebase that's responsible for refreshing/repainting the "content" trees?
[22:39:46] <john_> (for firefox 2.0 and lower)
[22:39:50] <john_> so, I think 1.7 ?
[22:40:11] <@bz> john_: Firefox 2 is Gecko 1.8.1
[22:40:15] <john_> ah, ok
[22:40:19] <john_> so, in 1.8.1 or lower
[22:40:27] <@bz> john_: nsIFrame::Invalidate is responsible for invalidating things
[22:40:32] <john_> ah, ok, from last night
[22:40:35] <@bz> john_: this calls through to nsIViewMAnager
[22:40:35] <john_> I'll take a poke there
[22:40:50] <@bz> john_: which then talks to the per-platform widget impls
[22:40:56] <@bz> reed: uh... looking
[22:41:00] <john_> hrm...
[22:41:00] bz hasn't even looked at tbox today
[22:41:04] <@bz> I'd need reviews first
[22:41:13] <john_> is there a global timer somewhere that kicks off this process...?
[22:41:19] <@bz> john_: nope
[22:41:27] <@bz> john_: invalidates happen when something changes
[22:41:31] <john_> bz: care to bet a beer on it... ? :-)
[22:41:42] <john_> I got my win32 evilness working...
[22:41:43] <@bz> joahn_: operating system expose events are handled 
[22:42:02] <john_> yeah, I can reproduce a case where it paints with no mouse movement and no expose events
[22:42:03] <@bz> er, john_: the widget impls notify viewmanager when it's time to paint
[22:42:15] <john_> hrm...
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[22:42:24] <@bz> john_: you don't need mouse movement for "somethign changes"
[22:42:29] <john_> sure
[22:42:32] <john_> I didn't move any windows either
[22:42:36] <@bz> Just a setTimeout doing some stuff will do
[22:42:42] <john_> sure...
[22:42:46] <john_> oh, good point
[22:42:58] <john_> I didn't think about the actual content making a difference
[22:43:07] <john_> ok, so would google's homepage be a good candidate
[22:43:09] <@bz> In fact, on a typical web page, that's the reason for most of the paints, I think
[22:43:12] <@bz> barring scrolling
[22:43:14] <john_> for something that shouldn't change on its own?
[22:43:19] <@bz> yeah
[22:43:24] <john_> ok, lemme try that...
[22:43:41] <@bz> reed: which metric?
[22:43:51] <reed> bz: Ts
[22:44:02] <@bz> reed: huh
[22:44:07] <@bz> reed: pretty significant, too...
[22:44:11] <reed> yeah
[22:44:18] <reed> afaict, everything's been backed out
[22:44:33] <@bz> mmm
[22:44:36] <reed> that could have any possible cause
[22:44:36] <@bz> there was the orange...
[22:44:38] <reed> yeah
[22:44:43] <reed> I think it's just a box problem :(
[22:44:51] <john_> bz: I hate it when moz engineers are right!
[22:44:52] <john_> :-)
[22:45:09] bz aims to have john_ hate a lot  ;)
[22:45:28] <john_> <-- aims to owe a lot of beer
[22:46:14] <@bz> hmmm
[22:46:18] <@bz> we're sure all the build stuff is mac-only?
[22:47:23] <@bz> yeah
[22:47:41] <@bz> at a guess, _something_ changed during the orange.  :(
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[22:47:48] <@bz> In terms of position on disk or some such BS
[22:48:04] bz recalls us having this problem with Linux boxen in the past.... we thought we'd put that behind us
[22:48:41] <reed> yeah
[22:48:58] <reed> I'd say file a bug, note how everything was backed out, perf regression remained, and move on
[22:49:09] <reed> maybe have IT restart that machine first though?
[22:51:11] jeremy blinks
[22:51:17] <jeremy> is reed really here?
[22:52:00] jeremy guesses it'd be hard to fake the /oper'ing
[22:52:27] <@bz> reed: a reboot might not be a terrible idea...
[22:52:38] <@bz> reed: for some values of "not a terrible idea"
[22:52:43] bz hates not trusting our perf tests
[22:53:16] <reed> yeah
[22:53:17] <reed> ok
[22:53:19] <reed> filing the bug
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[23:03:04] bz prays for reviews
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[23:04:24] philor waits for his reviewer to wake up
[23:09:42] <@bz> heh
[23:09:45] <@bz> you only have one?  :(
[23:10:20] <Mossop> ted: ping
[23:11:32] bz has 25 patches waiting on reviews
[23:11:51] <@bz> I think that covers at least 6-7 different reviewers
[23:12:43] <@bz> Granted, only 13 of those are blockers....
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[23:15:27] <reed> bz: how many b2 blockers?
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[23:16:51] <roc> dbaron's been answering my prayers lately :-)
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[23:17:05] <@bz> reed: you mean p1s?
[23:17:07] <roc> well, the review-related ones :-)
[23:17:09] <reed> bz: yeah
[23:17:12] <reed> roc: twanno's patch?
[23:17:18] <reed> roc: will it fix my problems? :(
[23:17:27] bz checks
[23:17:28] reed gets very annoyed when borders turn clear
[23:17:31] <@bz> not that many
[23:17:36] <roc> dunno which patch you mean
[23:18:08] bz hopes that once dbaron is done with this mathml thing, he'll review some of his stuff
[23:18:11] <@bz> reed: 3
[23:18:29] <reed> roc: looking
[23:18:40] bz doesn't have any unpatched p1s now
[23:18:48] reed is about to lose e-mail for 8 hours
[23:18:49] <reed> :(
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[23:19:07] <@bz> until I scavenge some more bugs
[23:19:12] <@bz> reed: you mean you'll sleep?
[23:19:22] <reed> no, dreamhost is having an 8 hour downtime
[23:19:23] <reed> lol
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[23:19:55] <dbradley> jst: You around?
[23:20:13] <reed> roc: bug 404816
[23:20:23] <roc> huh, I only have 11 patches waiting for review
[23:20:25] <reed> if that fixes my border problem, I'll be very happy
[23:20:26] <roc> it felt like more :-)
[23:21:17] <@bz> roc: heh
[23:21:38] <@bz> roc: you don't ask for reviews from deadbeats much, eh?  ;)
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[23:23:24] <Mossop> What's happening with the tree closure?
[23:24:00] <reed> Mossop: waiting on IT to restart that machine
[23:24:01] <reed> rhelmer: ping
[23:24:14] <reed> rhelmer: you're around... can you just do it, please? :)
[23:24:39] doublehp [dhp@A1DA4570.35E04327.482F3ED2.IP] has joined #developers
[23:24:50] <reed> it'll be another 15-30 min. before IT gets paged
[23:24:53] <doublehp> hy
[23:25:34] <doublehp> any one can help me sending a Close/Quit signal to TB using D-Bus ? http://rafb.net/p/GcN9lK90.html works (for Gaim). I am looking for an equivalent for Mozilla products
[23:25:48] <doublehp> when I press Shutdown button ( Ir remote, computer ACPI button, of multimedia button), http://rafb.net/p/GcN9lK90.html closes Pidgin properly, avoiding harsh way, server timeouts, and people thinking I am online until timeout occurs .... I needed Xnee to force TB synchronise Imap boxes. But, Xnee assumes the window to be at some exact position. It never failed for the last 6 months ...
[23:25:53] <doublehp> but I think DBus would really bebetter
[23:26:13] <reed> roc can help you!
[23:26:19] <reed> he wrote our dbus interface code
[23:26:19] <reed> :p
[23:26:33] <doublehp> roc seems online ....
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[23:30:24] <firebot> Firefox: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.8.4 bm-xserve11 Depend Debug + Leak Test' has changed state from Success to Test Failed.
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[23:31:12] <doublehp> where has the /mozilla/toolkit/system/dbus dir gone ? (been moved )
[23:31:43] <reed> looks there to me...
[23:32:21] <doublehp> should it be in thunderbird-2.0.0.9-source.tar.bz2 ?
[23:32:57] <jeremy> doublehp: not a good idea to do any kind of development with 2.0.0.x series code
[23:33:09] WeirdAl [chatzilla@moz-E0ACC29C.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #developers
[23:33:13] <jeremy> (except maybe extdev...)
[23:33:16] <doublehp> m just asking
[23:33:50] <WeirdAl> reed: please tell me you found it
[23:34:00] <doublehp> thats what my Gentoo gave me easily ... 
[23:34:03] <reed> WeirdAl: we're restarting the box
[23:34:10] <reed> because we don't know where it is
[23:34:15] WeirdAl grumbles
[23:34:19] <charliehorse107> I get massage: The URL is not valid and cannot be loaded
[23:34:19] <reed> I've backed out everything it could possibly be
[23:34:21] <reed> :(
[23:34:37] <charliehorse107> why
[23:34:39] <doublehp> jeremy: once I found the header, or the source file that gets the calls in, I find the list of acceptable calls
[23:34:49] <charliehorse107> ?????
[23:35:10] <doublehp> URL ? 
[23:35:11] <jeremy> charliehorse107: leave this channel please
[23:35:18] jeremy sighs
[23:35:19] <charliehorse107> okay
[23:35:22] <@bz> This code makee no sensee
[23:36:06] <dmoseMsgMe> bz: which code?
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[23:36:22] <WeirdAl> so, anyone who understands XUL tree box objects very well and has a few minutes to spare, please ping me
[23:36:26] <firebot> Firefox: 'MacOSX Darwin 8.8.4 bm-xserve11 Depend Debug + Leak Test' has changed state from Test Failed to Success.
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[23:37:22] <@bz> dmoseMsgMe: XULContentSinkImpl::OpenScript
[23:37:28] <@bz> Or rather the API it's calling
[23:37:29] <@bz> but ok
[23:37:36] <@bz> Here's the question
[23:37:44] <@bz> what should a <script type="   "> do in XUL?
[23:37:46] <@bz> Treat as JS?
[23:37:48] <@bz> Parse error?
[23:37:51] <@bz> something else?
[23:37:58] <dmose> parse error 
[23:38:51] <dmose> i mean, unless there's some advantage to "treat as JS" that i'm not imagining
[23:39:01] <dmose> like a zillion deployed tags of that form
[23:39:21] <@bz> ok
[23:39:26] <@bz> What about <script type=""> ?
[23:39:44] <@bz> "Parse error" == "yellow screen of DOOM in this case"
[23:39:57] <dmose> mmm, boy
[23:40:05] <dmose> i wish we could report those errors a little less painfully
[23:40:11] <@bz> er, "yellow screen of DOOM" in this case
[23:40:21] <@bz> heh
[23:40:27] <@bz> we could set the script type to unknown
[23:40:33] <@bz> but that's a REALLY bad idea
[23:40:34] <doublehp> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=377843 refers to /cvsroot/mozilla/toolkit/system/dbus/Makefile.in,v but I cant find it in my local snapshot thunderbird-2.0.0.9-source.tar.bz2 nor in webCVS: http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla1.8/source/toolkit/ anyclue why ?
[23:40:35] <dmose> oh, so it'd be a yellow screen only in the type="" case but not in the type=" "
[23:40:38] <dmose> ?
[23:40:40] <@bz> because the content sink does NOT deal with it
[23:40:43] <@bz> well
[23:40:49] <@bz> depends on how you define deal
[23:40:52] <@bz> it'll assert
[23:40:55] <@bz> and start throwing exceptions
[23:41:00] <@bz> eventually
[23:41:15] <@bz> dmose: I'm in a function.  I have to decide one of three things:
[23:41:24] <@bz> 1)  return error result (leads to yellow screen)
[23:41:30] <doublehp> hmmm ... why is it in http://mxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/toolkit/system/dbus/ ?
[23:41:33] <@bz> 2)  return OK result and pretend I never tried to find a type
[23:41:47] <@bz> 3)  return OK result but take into account that the type was bogus
[23:41:57] <reed> doublehp: because it's in Firefox 3 (trunk)
[23:41:57] <philor> doublehp: for anything in the last two years or so, if there's no "fixed1.8.n.m.x" keyword, it's only on the trunk, not a branch
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[23:42:42] <dmose> hmmm
[23:43:05] <jeremy> fixed1.8.n.m not fixed1.8.n.m.x
[23:43:06] <doublehp> so, never any D-Bus in 2.0 ?
[23:43:13] <dmose> bz: 1) seems like the most "correct" thing to do
[23:43:20] <jeremy> and verified1.8.n.m implies fixed too
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[23:43:50] <jeremy> err
[23:44:16] <@bz> dmose: ok.  that's actually what we do now..
[23:44:17] <dmose> bz: at some level, i think the ideal thing would be do 1) and also figure out some more graceful way of degrading than the yellow screen
[23:44:21] <@bz> dmose: now what if it's type="abc"
[23:44:22] <charliehorse107> hi  I'm getting a error massage when I open browser firefox in win xp that says : the url is not valid and cannot be loaded
[23:44:22] <jeremy> yeah i think that's it
[23:44:35] bz hates reading this code.  :(
[23:44:41] <charliehorse107> what is it??
[23:44:44] <jeremy> charliehorse107: again, please leave this channel.  #firefox is the correct place for support
[23:44:48] sdwilsh|away [sdwilsh@moz-13804B3A.public.engin.umich.edu] has joined #developers
[23:44:59] <dmose> bz: in general, like throwing an error for whatever's wrong
[23:45:07] <dmose> bz: otherwise we end up in quirks mode hell like html
[23:45:10] <jeremy> (and i am trying to help you there...)
[23:45:11] <dmose> s/like/i like/
[23:45:31] <charliehorse107> do you will anwser or will keep wasting my valuable time???
[23:46:17] <dmose> charliehorse107: you will not get an answer in this channel.   you might get one in #firefox.
[23:46:40] jeremy has an outstanding question for charliehorse107 in #firefox which he hasn't answered
[23:47:03] doublehp [dhp@A1DA4570.35E04327.482F3ED2.IP] has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving.
[23:47:19] <charliehorse107> but jeremy is not really resolving is just enflask in a says say and does'nt say ????
[23:47:42] <@bz> dmose: The question is whether we should just ignore <script>s of unknown type
[23:47:51] <@bz> dmose: or bail out of the XUL document altogether...
[23:48:10] <sdwilsh|away> scripts of unkown type?
[23:48:15] <sdwilsh|away> like not application/javascript?
[23:48:19] <reed> charliehorse107: you need to leave :)
[23:48:23] <jeremy> charliehorse107: that's irrelevant.  THIS IS THE WRONG CHANNEL FOR SUPPORT.  there are plenty of other ppl in #firefox to help if you don't like me (including some ppl in this channel)
[23:48:24] <@bz>               "application/x-javascript",
[23:48:25] <@bz>               "text/javascript",
[23:48:25] <@bz>               "text/ecmascript",
[23:48:25] <@bz>               "application/javascript",
[23:48:25] <@bz>               "application/ecmascript",
[23:48:28] <@bz> Like not one of those
[23:48:35] <@bz> Or not of a type we know about
[23:48:49] <@bz> as in, have a registered script runtime for
[23:49:03] <@bz> note that we do support pluggable script runtimes (e.g. python)
[23:49:06] <charliehorse107> jeremy do me a favor just take a hike
[23:49:07] <@bz> which may or may not be installed
[23:49:16] <jeremy> charliehorse107: ummm, no
[23:49:16] <dmose> bz: can you op me
[23:49:33] <sdwilsh|away> bz: er, yeah, I konw about all those
[23:49:44] <sdwilsh|away> shouldn't we like, bump application/javascript up?
[23:49:45] charliehorse107 [chatzilla@moz-31A3F08F.prtc.net] has been kicked from #developers by OperServ [services@mozilla.org]: reed (Please use #firefox for support.)
[23:49:52] <sdwilsh|away> wait - I already filed a bug on that
[23:49:56] <dmose> bz: it's an odd situation, bailing out is a bit like an assert
[23:50:05] <@bz> dmose: /mode dmose +o, right?
[23:50:11] <dmose> yeah
[23:50:14] <jeremy> no
[23:50:15] bz did that
[23:50:19] <dmose> ah, ok, thanks
[23:50:26] <jeremy> /mode #developers +o dmose
[23:50:32] <dmose> oh, heh
[23:50:35] bz [bzbarsky@moz-C9A4D477.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has set mode +o dmose
[23:50:37] <cesar> I'm trying to find the right interface for this..
[23:50:37] <@bz> aha
[23:50:39] <@bz> there we are
[23:50:40] <jeremy> with some clients you can leave out the #developers
[23:50:49] <reed> bz: you can do /op <nick> on most clients
[23:50:53] <reed> as a shortcut
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[23:51:08] <@dmose> bz: anyway, it's almost like XUL needs a strict mode or something
[23:51:12] bz [bzbarsky@moz-C9A4D477.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #developers
[23:51:12] ChanServ [services@mozilla.org] has set mode +o bz
[23:51:13] Mossop_away [Mossop@moz-B9F6E8D3.oxymoronical.com] is now known as Mossop
[23:51:15] <sdwilsh|away> haha
[23:51:20] <@bz> nope
[23:51:21] <jeremy> <@dmose> bz: anyway, it's almost like XUL needs a strict mode or something
[23:51:32] <@bz> dmose: heh
[23:51:33] <@bz>  /op asks me for the oper password
[23:51:36] <@dmose> bz: because the bailout thing is better for the programmer to catch errors
[23:51:43] <cesar> the user clicks on the link, and tries to download a file. It's not a nsIURIContentListener, because I want to check for the actual extension of the file rather than the content type
[23:51:49] <@bz> sdwilsh: perhaps.  The order was chosen for perf reasons...
[23:51:51] <reed> bz: well, that's client thing then
[23:51:51] <reed> weird
[23:51:51] <@dmose> bz: but the degrade gracefully thing is better for users if the errors don't get caught
[23:51:54] <@bz> sdwilsh: in the end it really doesn't matter
[23:52:22] <sdwilsh|away> bz: yeah - the bug also says move all our code to application/javascript
[23:52:24] <@bz> cesar: security hole right there
[23:52:28] <sdwilsh|away> because right now it's a mishmash
[23:52:42] <@bz> sdwilsh|away: yeah
[23:52:50] <sdwilsh|away> cesar: are you doing what I think you are doing? :(
[23:53:07] <cesar> bz: because I'm assuming a file type association?
[23:53:18] <cesar> sdwilsh|away: probably. you seem to sad
[23:53:44] <@dmose> cesar: Don't Do That
[23:53:49] <sdwilsh|away> cesar: downloads that go to a certain folder?
[23:54:14] <cesar> mmm, no. Like if they click on a .txt file, I want to be able to handle it
[23:54:35] <@bz> cesar: because you're treating the file as somethign other than the advertised type, in general...
[23:54:44] <@dmose> cesar: can you describe what larger problem you're trying to solve?
[23:54:47] <@bz> cesar: thus undoing the work of filtering proxies, etc
[23:54:59] <@bz> cesar: so what are you really trying to do here?
[23:55:12] bz notices that dmose already asked that, with more tact
[23:55:21] <@dmose> heh
[23:55:22] <reed> bz: want to know what it was?
[23:55:27] <@bz> reed: which?
[23:55:31] <@bz> reed: the Ts?
[23:55:35] <reed> bz: justdave says there's 8 crashreporter windows open
[23:55:36] <reed> :(
[23:55:39] <@bz> reed: sweet
[23:55:48] reed growls
[23:55:50] <@bz> reed: didn't we use to disable that sort of thing on tbox?
[23:55:57] <@bz> reed: I swear we did
[23:56:11] <@dmose> i bet we disabled it in the talkback days
[23:56:20] <sayrer> haha
[23:56:24] <@bz> Then we definitely did
[23:56:33] <sayrer> I think Talos has it done too
[23:56:34] <@bz> get a bug filed to do that again?
[23:56:35] <reed> so, we've had the tree closed for how many hours?
[23:56:40] <sayrer> cause it didn't move
[23:56:43] <reed> because of stupid breakpad being open
[23:56:47] <@bz> heh
[23:56:49] <@bz> but now we know
[23:56:50] <@bz> and can fix
[23:56:59] <@bz> and it's not "real" box flakiness
[23:57:02] <@dmose> and, hey, it's an easy fix too!
[23:57:05] roc [roc@moz-C35BE7F8.dsl.telstraclear.net] has quit IRC: Quit: roc
[23:57:20] <@bz> so are we sure closing those windows fixes Ts?
[23:57:20] <@dmose> a lot better than "let's go spend a few days profiling"
[23:57:56] <reed> bz: it fixed perf regressions on other machines before
[23:58:22] <@bz> reed: uh... and we didn't disable the stupid thing then?  :(
[23:58:26] <@bz> reed: that's broken
[23:58:47] <@bz> not as broken as the XUL content sink
[23:58:48] <cesar> dmose/bz : so I have an extension that tries to run .webapp files. .webapp files aren't common, and normally if I click it, firefox will try to download it. What I want to do is, if they click a .webapp file, I want to download it to a temporary directory and then try to open it up in prism. I think that just registering an 'onclick' event might be sufficient, but I don't know if it handles keyboard events. So I wondered if there was a int
[23:58:49] <@bz> but broken
[23:58:55] <cesar> whew
[23:59:11] <reed> cesar: "So I wondered if there was a int"
[23:59:14] <reed> you got cut off
[23:59:16] <sdwilsh|away> cesar: can't you register a mime-type handler?
[23:59:28] <cesar> "So I wondered if there was a interface I could use instead"
[23:59:30] <cesar> thanks reed
[23:59:32] <@bz> sdwilsh|away: his problem is that the files are served with a random type
[23:59:41] <@bz> cesar: are these files reliably detectable?
[23:59:43] <sdwilsh|away> oh yeah, servers suck
[23:59:53] gavin_ [gavin@CPE001346f5db49-CM0018c0db9a8a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit IRC: Ping timeout
[23:59:55] <@bz> cesar: if you have access to the file data?
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